Difference between revisions of "Avraham's Prayer for Sedom/2/en"
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<point><b>Meaning of "לַמָּקוֹם"</b> – This approach holds that "לַמָּקוֹם" means literally the land itself.</point> | <point><b>Meaning of "לַמָּקוֹם"</b> – This approach holds that "לַמָּקוֹם" means literally the land itself.</point> | ||
<point><b>Relationship between verses 23-25</b> – According to these commentators the verses contain two different requests, that the righteous be saved (verses 23 and 25) and that the land not be destroyed (verse 24).  According to Ma'asei Hashem the common denominator is the demand that justice be done to the worthy people of the city.  However, it is unclear why Avraham goes back and forth between his different requests.</point> | <point><b>Relationship between verses 23-25</b> – According to these commentators the verses contain two different requests, that the righteous be saved (verses 23 and 25) and that the land not be destroyed (verse 24).  According to Ma'asei Hashem the common denominator is the demand that justice be done to the worthy people of the city.  However, it is unclear why Avraham goes back and forth between his different requests.</point> | ||
| − | <point><b>Collective Punishment</b> – This approach might maintain that Hashem had never planned to collectively punish Sedom; there were simply no righteous people to save.  Avraham, however, was unaware of this reality and mistakenly thought that Hashem was going to unjustly destroy them and their land.<fn>Radak implies that | + | <point><b>Collective Punishment</b> – This approach might maintain that Hashem had never planned to collectively punish Sedom; there were simply no righteous people to save.  Avraham, however, was unaware of this reality and mistakenly thought that Hashem was going to unjustly destroy them and their land.<fn>Radak implies that collective punishment i affected by the level of righteousness of a person.  If worthy, he will be saved despite the surrounding destruction, but if he is less worthy he might perish together with them.  In this case, it is unclear if all were active sinners or simply not righteous enough.</fn></point> |
<point><b>Collective Salvation</b> – According to this approach both Hashem and Avraham wanted the sinners to be punished as it would be unjust for them to be saved.<fn>This issue is one of the motivating factors leading Ma'asei Hashem to understand that the discussion in verse 24 is about the land rather than the wicked of the city.</fn></point> | <point><b>Collective Salvation</b> – According to this approach both Hashem and Avraham wanted the sinners to be punished as it would be unjust for them to be saved.<fn>This issue is one of the motivating factors leading Ma'asei Hashem to understand that the discussion in verse 24 is about the land rather than the wicked of the city.</fn></point> | ||
<point><b>Why does Avraham stop at ten?</b> R. Yehudah HaChasid and Radak assert if there are less than 10 righteous people, there is no longer any justification to save the land.<fn>Radak notes that in Yechezkel 22, Hashem seems willing to save the land for even just one good person.  He suggests that there the person spoken of is a totally righteous person who was willing to reform those around him.  If no such people were to be found, though, there is not enough merit to save a city.  As further proof that sometimes the land will be destroyed despite the presence of even very righteous people, Radak points to Yechezkel 14:16 where Hashem says that though Noach, Daniel and Iyyov might be saved, "the land will lay barren".</fn>  Regarding the salvation of the righteous, though, one would think that it should not matter how many or few there were; each should be saved for his own deeds regardless of the presence of others.  Ma'asei Hashem, in fact, asserts that Avraham had planned on asking Hashem to save even one, but Hashem ended the conversation before he could.</point> | <point><b>Why does Avraham stop at ten?</b> R. Yehudah HaChasid and Radak assert if there are less than 10 righteous people, there is no longer any justification to save the land.<fn>Radak notes that in Yechezkel 22, Hashem seems willing to save the land for even just one good person.  He suggests that there the person spoken of is a totally righteous person who was willing to reform those around him.  If no such people were to be found, though, there is not enough merit to save a city.  As further proof that sometimes the land will be destroyed despite the presence of even very righteous people, Radak points to Yechezkel 14:16 where Hashem says that though Noach, Daniel and Iyyov might be saved, "the land will lay barren".</fn>  Regarding the salvation of the righteous, though, one would think that it should not matter how many or few there were; each should be saved for his own deeds regardless of the presence of others.  Ma'asei Hashem, in fact, asserts that Avraham had planned on asking Hashem to save even one, but Hashem ended the conversation before he could.</point> | ||
Version as of 00:21, 6 November 2014
Avraham's Prayer for Sedom
Exegetical Approaches
Even for Sinners
Avraham wanted all of the people in Sedom to be saved. Commentators disagree, though, regarding whom Avraham was actively praying for:
For Both Righteous and Wicked
Avraham was praying for everyone in Sedom to be saved, both the righteous and the wicked.
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע"
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם"
Meaning of "לַמָּקוֹם"
Relationship between verses 23-25
Collective Punishment
Collective Salvation
Why does Avraham stop at 10?
What happened at the end?
Was Avraham's Prayer Accepted?
Was Lot Righteous?
Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?
Specifically for the Wicked
Avraham was only praying for the sinners, being certain that Hashem would save the righteous even without his request.
Sources:R. S"R Hirsch
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע" –
R. S"R Hirsch explains the word "תִּסְפֶּה" as to punish. He says that by killing the sinners, the righteous are also getting punished because after working hard to reform the wicked,1 it is distressful for them to see them nonetheless perish.
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם" – R. Hirsch distinguishes between the terms "לְמַעַן" and "בגלל", asserting that the former means "for the good/sake of" rather than "because of". Thus, Avraham was praying that all of the people in the city be saved as a reward for the righteous,2 but not due to their righteousness.3
Meaning of "לַמָּקוֹם" – This approach maintains that "לַמָּקוֹם" is a general term for all of the people of the city.4
"חָלִלָה לְּךָ מֵעֲשֹׂת כַּדָּבָר הַזֶּה לְהָמִית צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע" – This sentence is problematic for R. Hirsch, since it implies that Avraham is bothered by the possibility that the righteous will actually be killed (and not just distressed by the deaths of others).5
Relationship between verses 23-25 – The three verses all constitute one request and refer only to the injustice that would be done to the righteous through the destruction of the wicked..
Collective Punishment – According to R. S"R Hirsch, Avraham is not arguing about the injustice of collective punishment; it was obvious to him all along that Hashem would not kill the righteous.
Collective Salvation – According to R. Hirsch there is no collective salvation either. Hashem agrees to save the wicked if there are a portion of righteous in the city, not because they are part of the collective,6 but because the very presence of righteous people proves that the wicked tolerated them and thus were not totally corrupt.7
Why does Avraham stop at 10? R. Hirsch asserts that Avraham understood why Hashem was willing to save the wicked,8 and realized that if there were less than ten righteous, the fact that they were tolerated is no longer such a merit for the wicked, since it is likely that they simply dismissed them as insignificant.9
What happened at the end? Though Hashem accepts Avraham's prayer, apparently there were not enough righteous people to be found to enable a saving of the wicked.
Was Avraham's Prayer Accepted?
Was Lot Righteous? R. Hirsch writes that Lot was "only with difficulty worthy of salvation". It was Hashem's attribute of mercy rather than justice which saved him.
Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?
Only for the Righteous
Avraham was praying only for the righteous, that they should not die due to the rest of the people's sins.
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע" – Avraham is asking that the righteous should be saved and not die with the sinners.
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם" –
These commentators differ in the understanding of this verse:
- Seforno explains
- Biur and R. Y"S Reggio say
Meaning of "לַמָּקוֹם" – Seforno explains "לַמָּקוֹם" to refer to all of the people in the city whereas the Biur and R. Y"S Reggio explain it to mean the people in the area where the righteous live.
Relationship between verses 23-25
Collective Punishment – R. Y"S Reggio
Collective Salvation
Why does Avraham stop at 10?
What happened at the end?
Was Avraham's Prayer Accepted?
Was Lot Righteous?
Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom? Seforno explains that
For the Physical Location
Avraham was praying for both the righteous of Sedom, and that Hashem not destroy the land itself.
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע" – This approach reads this verse in its simple sense, to mean that Avraham was questioning how Hashem could kill the righteous with the wicked.
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם" – According to all these sources, these words serve as a request that Hashem should not destroy the city itself,10 but the commentators differ in their understanding of Avrahams' reasoning. Radak asserts that Avraham was requesting that the city be saved due to the merit of the righteous people while Ma'asei Hashem maintains that Avraham did not think it just that the righteous should lose their land.11
Meaning of "לַמָּקוֹם" – This approach holds that "לַמָּקוֹם" means literally the land itself.
Relationship between verses 23-25 – According to these commentators the verses contain two different requests, that the righteous be saved (verses 23 and 25) and that the land not be destroyed (verse 24). According to Ma'asei Hashem the common denominator is the demand that justice be done to the worthy people of the city. However, it is unclear why Avraham goes back and forth between his different requests.
Collective Punishment – This approach might maintain that Hashem had never planned to collectively punish Sedom; there were simply no righteous people to save. Avraham, however, was unaware of this reality and mistakenly thought that Hashem was going to unjustly destroy them and their land.12
Collective Salvation – According to this approach both Hashem and Avraham wanted the sinners to be punished as it would be unjust for them to be saved.13
Why does Avraham stop at ten? R. Yehudah HaChasid and Radak assert if there are less than 10 righteous people, there is no longer any justification to save the land.14 Regarding the salvation of the righteous, though, one would think that it should not matter how many or few there were; each should be saved for his own deeds regardless of the presence of others. Ma'asei Hashem, in fact, asserts that Avraham had planned on asking Hashem to save even one, but Hashem ended the conversation before he could.
What happened at the end? The land and people were destroyed since there were no righteous people. Lot was saved, not due to his goodness, but out of kindness to Avraham.
Was Lot Righteous? Radak and Ma'asei Hashem both maintain that Lot was not righteous and was only saved because of Avraham.
