Difference between revisions of "Avraham's Prayer for Sedom/2/en"
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<opinion name="">For Both Righteous and Wicked | <opinion name="">For Both Righteous and Wicked | ||
<p>Avraham was praying for everyone in Sedom to be saved, both the righteous and the wicked.</p> | <p>Avraham was praying for everyone in Sedom to be saved, both the righteous and the wicked.</p> | ||
− | <mekorot><multilink><a href="RYosefBekhorShorBereshit18-2428" data-aht="source">R. Yosef Bekhor Shor</a><a href="RYosefBekhorShorBereshit18-2428" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:24,28</a><a href="R. Yosef Bekhor Shor" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yosef Bekhor Shor</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RambanBereshit18-23" data-aht="source">Ramban</a><a href="RambanBereshit18-23" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:23</a><a href="R. Moshe b. Nachman (Ramban)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe Nachmanides</a></multilink></mekorot> | + | <mekorot><multilink><a href="BereshitRabbahAlbeck49verse23" data-aht="source">Bereshit Rabbah</a><a href="BereshitRabbahAlbeck49verse23" data-aht="source">(Albeck) 49, verse 23</a><a href="BereshitRabbahAlbeck49verse25" data-aht="source">(Albeck) 49, verse 25</a><a href="Bereshit Rabbah" data-aht="parshan">About Bereshit Rabbah</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RYosefBekhorShorBereshit18-2428" data-aht="source">R. Yosef Bekhor Shor</a><a href="RYosefBekhorShorBereshit18-2428" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:24,28</a><a href="R. Yosef Bekhor Shor" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yosef Bekhor Shor</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RambanBereshit18-23" data-aht="source">Ramban</a><a href="RambanBereshit18-23" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:23</a><a href="R. Moshe b. Nachman (Ramban)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe Nachmanides</a></multilink></mekorot> |
<point><b>"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע"</b></point> | <point><b>"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע"</b></point> | ||
<point><b>"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם"</b></point> | <point><b>"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם"</b></point> | ||
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<point><b>Collective Salvation</b> – According to this approach there is no discussion of collective salvation by either Avraham or Hashem; both believe that the sinners to be punished and that it would be unjust for them to be saved.<fn>This issue is one of the motivating factors leading Ma'asei Hashem to understand that the discussion in verse 24 is about the land rather than the wicked of the city.</fn></point> | <point><b>Collective Salvation</b> – According to this approach there is no discussion of collective salvation by either Avraham or Hashem; both believe that the sinners to be punished and that it would be unjust for them to be saved.<fn>This issue is one of the motivating factors leading Ma'asei Hashem to understand that the discussion in verse 24 is about the land rather than the wicked of the city.</fn></point> | ||
<point><b>Why does Avraham stop at ten?</b> R. Yehudah HaChasid and Radak assert if there are less than 10 righteous people, there is no longer any justification to save the land.<fn>Radak notes that in Yechezkel 22, Hashem seems willing to save the land for even just one good person.  He suggests that there the person spoken of is a totally righteous person who was willing to reform those around him.  If no such people were to be found, though, there is not enough merit to save a city.  As further proof that sometimes the land will be destroyed despite the presence of even very righteous people, Radak points to Yechezkel 14:16 where Hashem says that though Noach, Daniel and Iyyov might be saved, "the land will lay barren".</fn>  Regarding the salvation of the righteous, though, one would think that it should not matter how many or few there were; each should be saved for his own deeds regardless of the presence of others.  Ma'asei Hashem, in fact, asserts that Avraham had planned on asking Hashem to save even one, but Hashem ended the conversation before he could.</point> | <point><b>Why does Avraham stop at ten?</b> R. Yehudah HaChasid and Radak assert if there are less than 10 righteous people, there is no longer any justification to save the land.<fn>Radak notes that in Yechezkel 22, Hashem seems willing to save the land for even just one good person.  He suggests that there the person spoken of is a totally righteous person who was willing to reform those around him.  If no such people were to be found, though, there is not enough merit to save a city.  As further proof that sometimes the land will be destroyed despite the presence of even very righteous people, Radak points to Yechezkel 14:16 where Hashem says that though Noach, Daniel and Iyyov might be saved, "the land will lay barren".</fn>  Regarding the salvation of the righteous, though, one would think that it should not matter how many or few there were; each should be saved for his own deeds regardless of the presence of others.  Ma'asei Hashem, in fact, asserts that Avraham had planned on asking Hashem to save even one, but Hashem ended the conversation before he could.</point> | ||
− | <point><b>What happened at the end?</b> The land and people were destroyed since there were no righteous people. | + | <point><b>What happened at the end?</b> The land and people were destroyed since there were no righteous people.</point> |
<point><b>Punishing the land?</b></point> | <point><b>Punishing the land?</b></point> | ||
<point><b>Was Lot Righteous?</b> Radak and Ma'asei Hashem both maintain that Lot was not righteous and was saved not due tohis goodness, but out of kindness to Avraham.<fn>According to Radak, Avraham had not prayed for him at all, not knowing if he deserved it. Ma'asei hashem, though, maintains that Avraham had intended to pray for him individually but was not given a chance.  Hashem, who knew this desire of Avraham, granted it.</fn></point> | <point><b>Was Lot Righteous?</b> Radak and Ma'asei Hashem both maintain that Lot was not righteous and was saved not due tohis goodness, but out of kindness to Avraham.<fn>According to Radak, Avraham had not prayed for him at all, not knowing if he deserved it. Ma'asei hashem, though, maintains that Avraham had intended to pray for him individually but was not given a chance.  Hashem, who knew this desire of Avraham, granted it.</fn></point> |
Version as of 02:04, 6 November 2014
Avraham's Prayer for Sedom
Exegetical Approaches
Even for Sinners
Avraham wanted all of the people in Sedom to be saved. Commentators disagree, though, regarding whom Avraham was actively praying for:
For Both Righteous and Wicked
Avraham was praying for everyone in Sedom to be saved, both the righteous and the wicked.
Specifically for the Wicked
Avraham was only praying for the sinners, being certain that Hashem would save the righteous even without his request.
R. S"R Hirsch does not address the meaning of the word "הַאַף" but seems to be reading the phrase as if written "הַתִּסְפֶּה אַף צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע". He explains the word "תִּסְפֶּה" as to punish and suggests that Avraham is pointing out that by killing the sinners, the righteous are also, unjustly getting punished. After working hard to reform the wicked,1 it is distressful for them to see the people nonetheless perish.
For the Physical Location
Avraham was praying for both the righteous of Sedom, and that Hashem not destroy the land itself.
Only for the Righteous
Avraham was praying only for the righteous, that they should not die due to the rest of the people's sins.
These commentators all agree that these words are a continuation of Avraham's original argument, but differ in their specific understanding of the verse:
- Seforno explains
- Biur and R. Y"S Reggio say