Difference between revisions of "Avraham's Prayer for Sedom/2/en"
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<point><b>"חָלִלָה לְּךָ מֵעֲשֹׂת כַּדָּבָר הַזֶּה לְהָמִית צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע"</b> – This sentence is problematic for R. Hirsch, since it implies that Avraham is bothered by the possibility that the righteous will actually be killed (and not just distressed by the deaths of others).<fn>R. Hirsch attempts to explain that their distress at each lost life would be so great that it was almost like being killed, "והיה סובל יסורי – מות באבדן כל נפש".  This, though, is not the simple reading of the verse.</fn></point> | <point><b>"חָלִלָה לְּךָ מֵעֲשֹׂת כַּדָּבָר הַזֶּה לְהָמִית צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע"</b> – This sentence is problematic for R. Hirsch, since it implies that Avraham is bothered by the possibility that the righteous will actually be killed (and not just distressed by the deaths of others).<fn>R. Hirsch attempts to explain that their distress at each lost life would be so great that it was almost like being killed, "והיה סובל יסורי – מות באבדן כל נפש".  This, though, is not the simple reading of the verse.</fn></point> | ||
<point><b>Relationship between verses 23-25</b> – The three verses all constitute one request and refer only to the saving of the wicked.</point> | <point><b>Relationship between verses 23-25</b> – The three verses all constitute one request and refer only to the saving of the wicked.</point> | ||
| − | <point><b>Collective Punishment</b> – According to R. S"R Hirsch Avraham is not arguing about the injustice of collective punishment; it was obvious to him all along that Hashem would not kill the righteous.</point> | + | <point><b>Collective Punishment</b> – According to R. S"R Hirsch, Avraham is not arguing about the injustice of collective punishment; it was obvious to him all along that Hashem would not kill the righteous.</point> |
| − | <point><b>Collective Salvation</b> – According to R. Hirsch | + | <point><b>Collective Salvation</b> – According to R. Hirsch there is no collective salvation either.  Hashem agrees to save the wicked if there are a portion of righteous in the city, not because they are part of the collective, but because the very presence of righteous people proves that the wicked tolerated them and thus were not totally corrupt.<fn>He explains that in his answer to Avraham, Hashem uses the word "בַּעֲבוּרָם" rather than Avraham's "למען" to show that He is saving the wicked not for the good of the righteous, but because of their very existence.</fn></point> |
<point><b>What happened at the end?</b> Though Hashem accepts Avraham's prayer, apparently there were not enough righteous people to be found to enable a saving of the wicked.</point> | <point><b>What happened at the end?</b> Though Hashem accepts Avraham's prayer, apparently there were not enough righteous people to be found to enable a saving of the wicked.</point> | ||
<point><b>Was Avraham's Prayer Accepted?</b></point> | <point><b>Was Avraham's Prayer Accepted?</b></point> | ||
| − | <point><b>Was Lot Righteous?</b> | + | <point><b>Was Lot Righteous?</b> R. Hirsch writes that Lot was "only with difficulty worthy of salvation".  It was God's attribute of mercy rather than justice which saved him.</point> |
<point><b>Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?</b></point> | <point><b>Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?</b></point> | ||
</opinion> | </opinion> | ||
Version as of 14:13, 5 November 2014
Avraham's Prayer for Sedom
Exegetical Approaches
Even for Sinners
Avraham wanted all of the people in Sedom to be saved. Commentators disagree, though, regarding whom Avraham was actively praying for:
For Both Righteous and Wicked
Avraham was praying for everyone in Sedom to be saved, both the righteous and the wicked.
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע" – ש
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם"
What does "לַמָּקוֹם" mean?
Relationship between verses 23-25
Collective Punishment
Collective Salvation
What happened at the end?
Was Avraham's Prayer Accepted?
Was Lot Righteous?
Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?
Specifically for the Wicked
Avraham was only praying for the sinners, being certain that Hashem would save the righteous even without his request.
Sources:R. S"R Hirsch
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע" –
R. S"R Hirsch explains the word "תִּסְפֶּה" as to punish. He says that by killing the sinners, the righteous are also getting punished because after working hard to reform the wicked,1 it is distressful for to see them nonetheless perish.
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם" – R. Hirsch distinguishes between the terms "לְמַעַן" and "בגלל", asserting that the former means "for the good of" rather than "because of". Thus, Avraham was praying that all of the people in the city be saved as a reward for the righteous,2 but not due to their righteousness.3
Meaning of "לַמָּקוֹם" – This approach maintains that "לַמָּקוֹם" is a general term for all of the people of the city.
"חָלִלָה לְּךָ מֵעֲשֹׂת כַּדָּבָר הַזֶּה לְהָמִית צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע" – This sentence is problematic for R. Hirsch, since it implies that Avraham is bothered by the possibility that the righteous will actually be killed (and not just distressed by the deaths of others).4
Relationship between verses 23-25 – The three verses all constitute one request and refer only to the saving of the wicked.
Collective Punishment – According to R. S"R Hirsch, Avraham is not arguing about the injustice of collective punishment; it was obvious to him all along that Hashem would not kill the righteous.
Collective Salvation – According to R. Hirsch there is no collective salvation either. Hashem agrees to save the wicked if there are a portion of righteous in the city, not because they are part of the collective, but because the very presence of righteous people proves that the wicked tolerated them and thus were not totally corrupt.5
What happened at the end? Though Hashem accepts Avraham's prayer, apparently there were not enough righteous people to be found to enable a saving of the wicked.
Was Avraham's Prayer Accepted?
Was Lot Righteous? R. Hirsch writes that Lot was "only with difficulty worthy of salvation". It was God's attribute of mercy rather than justice which saved him.
Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?
Only for the Righteous
Avraham was praying only for the righteous, that they should not die due to the rest of the people's sins.
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע" – Avraham is asking that the righteous should be saved and not die with the sinners.
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם" –
These commentators differ in the understanding of this verse:
- Seforno explains
- Biur and R. Y"S Reggio say
What does "לַמָּקוֹם" mean? Seforno explains "לַמָּקוֹם" to refer to all of the people in the city whereas the Biur and R. Y"S Reggio explain it to mean the people in the area where the righteous live.
Relationship between verses 23-25
Collective Punishment – R. Y"S Reggio
Collective Salvation
What happened at the end?
Was Avraham's Prayer Accepted?
Was Lot Righteous?
Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom? Seforno explains that
For the Physical Location
Avraham was praying for both the righteous of Sedom, and that Hashem not destroy the land itself.
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע" – This approach explains that in this verse, Avraham was requesting that Hashem not kill the righteous with the wicked. According to Ma'asei Hashem Avraham has two requests: that the righteous should be saved and that the land should be saved.
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם" – These commentators agree that in these words Avraham was praying that Hashem should not destroy the city itself but differ regarding the reason. Radak asserts that Avraham was requesting that the city be saved due to the merit of the righteous people while Ma'asei Hashem maintains that Avraham did not think it just that the righteous should lose their land.6
What does "לַמָּקוֹם" mean? This approach holds that "לַמָּקוֹם" means literally the land itself.
Relationship between verses 23-25 – According to these commentators the verses contain two different requests, that the righteous be saved (verses 23 and 25) and that the land not be destroyed (verse 24). According to Ma'asei Hashem the common denominator is the demand that justice be done However, it is unclear why Avraham goes back and forth between his different requests.
Collective Punishment – This approach maintains that Hashem had never planned to collectively punish Sedom; there were simply no righteous people to save. Avraham, however, was unaware of this reality and mistakenly thought that Hashem was going to unjustly kill them also prompting his prayers.
Collective Salvation – According to this approach both Hashem and Avraham wanted the sinners to be punished as it would be unjust for them to be saved.
What happened at the end? The land and people were destroyed since there were no righteous people. Lot was saved, not due to his lack of sins, but out of kindness to Avraham.
Was Avraham's Prayer Accepted? According to this approach Avraham's prayer was not accepted at the end since there were not enough righteous people to save the land and there weren't any righteous in the city to be saved.
Was Lot Righteous? Radak and Ma'asei Hashem both maintain that Lot was not righteous and was only saved because of Avraham.
Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom? These commentators could explain like Rashbam that Hashem told Avraham about Sedom because Hashem was going to destroy land which belonged to Avraham.
