Difference between revisions of "Avraham's Prayer for Sedom/2/en"
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<point><b>What happened at the end?</b> Though Hashem accepts Avraham's prayer, apparently there were not enough righteous people to be found to enable a saving of the wicked.</point> | <point><b>What happened at the end?</b> Though Hashem accepts Avraham's prayer, apparently there were not enough righteous people to be found to enable a saving of the wicked.</point> | ||
<point><b>Was Avraham's Prayer Accepted?</b></point> | <point><b>Was Avraham's Prayer Accepted?</b></point> | ||
− | <point><b> | + | <point><b>Why was Lot saved?</b> R. Hirsch writes that Lot was "only with difficulty worthy of salvation".  It was Hashem's attribute of mercy rather than justice which saved him.</point> |
<point><b>Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?</b></point> | <point><b>Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?</b></point> | ||
</opinion> | </opinion> | ||
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<point><b>What happened at the end?</b> The land and people were destroyed since there were no righteous people.</point> | <point><b>What happened at the end?</b> The land and people were destroyed since there were no righteous people.</point> | ||
<point><b>Punishing the land?</b></point> | <point><b>Punishing the land?</b></point> | ||
− | <point><b> | + | <point><b>Why was Lot saved?</b> Radak and Ma'asei Hashem both maintain that Lot was not righteous and was saved not due to his goodness, but out of kindness to Avraham.<fn>According to Radak, Avraham had not prayed for him at all, not knowing if he deserved it. Ma'asei hashem, though, maintains that Avraham had intended to pray for him individually but was not given a chance.  Hashem, who knew this desire of Avraham, granted it.</fn></point> |
<point><b>Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?</b> These commentators could explain like <multilink><a href="RashbamBereshit18-17" data-aht="source">Rashbam</a><a href="RashbamBereshit18-17" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:17</a><a href="R. Shemuel b. Meir (Rashbam)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Shemuel b. Meir</a></multilink> that Hashem told Avraham about Sedom because Hashem was going to destroy land which belonged to Avraham. Radak, though, says that Hashem wanted Avraham to question Hashem's justice, attempt to find merits, and through the process to better understand Hashem's judgements.</point> | <point><b>Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?</b> These commentators could explain like <multilink><a href="RashbamBereshit18-17" data-aht="source">Rashbam</a><a href="RashbamBereshit18-17" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:17</a><a href="R. Shemuel b. Meir (Rashbam)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Shemuel b. Meir</a></multilink> that Hashem told Avraham about Sedom because Hashem was going to destroy land which belonged to Avraham. Radak, though, says that Hashem wanted Avraham to question Hashem's justice, attempt to find merits, and through the process to better understand Hashem's judgements.</point> | ||
</category> | </category> | ||
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<p>Avraham was praying only for the righteous, that they should not die due to the rest of the people's sins.</p> | <p>Avraham was praying only for the righteous, that they should not die due to the rest of the people's sins.</p> | ||
<mekorot><multilink><a href="QumranScroll4Q252Fragments13-5Column3" data-aht="source">Qumran</a><a href="QumranScroll4Q252Fragments13-5Column3" data-aht="source">Scroll 4Q252 Fragments 1,3-5 Column 3</a><a href="Qumran Scrolls" data-aht="parshan">About the Qumran Scrolls</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="SefornoBereshit18-2426" data-aht="source">Seforno</a><a href="SefornoBereshit18-17" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:17</a><a href="SefornoBereshit18-2426" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:24,26</a><a href="R. Ovadyah Seforno" data-aht="parshan">About R. Ovadyah Seforno</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BiurBereshit18-232426" data-aht="source">Biur</a><a href="BiurBereshit18-232426" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:23,24,26</a><a href="Biur" data-aht="parshan">About the Biur</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RYSReggioBereshit18-232426" data-aht="source">R. Y"S Reggio</a><a href="RYSReggioBereshit18-18" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:18</a><a href="RYSReggioBereshit18-232426" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:23,24,26</a><a href="R. Yitzchak Shemuel Reggio (Yashar)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yitzchak Shemuel Reggio</a></multilink></mekorot> | <mekorot><multilink><a href="QumranScroll4Q252Fragments13-5Column3" data-aht="source">Qumran</a><a href="QumranScroll4Q252Fragments13-5Column3" data-aht="source">Scroll 4Q252 Fragments 1,3-5 Column 3</a><a href="Qumran Scrolls" data-aht="parshan">About the Qumran Scrolls</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="SefornoBereshit18-2426" data-aht="source">Seforno</a><a href="SefornoBereshit18-17" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:17</a><a href="SefornoBereshit18-2426" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:24,26</a><a href="R. Ovadyah Seforno" data-aht="parshan">About R. Ovadyah Seforno</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BiurBereshit18-232426" data-aht="source">Biur</a><a href="BiurBereshit18-232426" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:23,24,26</a><a href="Biur" data-aht="parshan">About the Biur</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RYSReggioBereshit18-232426" data-aht="source">R. Y"S Reggio</a><a href="RYSReggioBereshit18-18" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:18</a><a href="RYSReggioBereshit18-232426" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:23,24,26</a><a href="R. Yitzchak Shemuel Reggio (Yashar)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yitzchak Shemuel Reggio</a></multilink></mekorot> | ||
− | <point><b>"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע"</b> – | + | <point><b>"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע"</b> – All these sources assume that Avraham is questioning the justice of killing the righteous together with the sinners,<fn>R. Y"S Reggio asserts that Avraham understood from Hashem's words "הַכְּצַעֲקָתָהּ הַבָּאָה אֵלַי עָשׂוּ כָּלָה" that he was planning on bringing total destruction on the city. Seforno who, instead, maintains that the word "כָּלָה" means כולם, must find a different verse which led Avraham to assume that Hashem meant to punish all. He thus suggests that Hashem's words "זַעֲקַת סְדֹם וַעֲמֹרָה כִּי רָבָּה" led Avraham to believe that Hashem was judging the city based on the majority of its inhabitants, and not each according to his deeds.</fn> but differ in their understanding of the word "הַאַף". R. Y"S Reggio understands it to mean "הגם"‎ and that Avraham is saying, "Will you also kill the righteous?". The Biur, instead understand the word to be related to anger, and has Avraham question why Hashem needs to act with his attribute of justice, which inevitable leads to collective rather than individual punishment.<fn>See below that he assumes that Hashem was to destroy Sedom via a messenger who could not differentiate between good and bad, especially if He was sent to quell Hashem's anger.</fn></point> |
<point><b>"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם"</b> – <p>These commentators all agree that these words are a continuation of Avraham's original argument, but differ in their specific understanding of the verse:</p> | <point><b>"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם"</b> – <p>These commentators all agree that these words are a continuation of Avraham's original argument, but differ in their specific understanding of the verse:</p> | ||
<ul> | <ul> | ||
− | <li>In contrast to most commentators, Seforno reads these words of Avraham as statement and not a question.  Avraham is telling Hashem, "Even though You do not plan to save the wicked due to the righteous, it is still unfathomable that | + | <li>In contrast to most commentators, Seforno reads these words of Avraham as a statement and not a question.  Avraham is telling Hashem, "Even though You do not plan to save the wicked due to the righteous, it is still unfathomable that You should kill the righteous with the wicked..."<fn>He does not read "אַף" to mean also (like R. Y"S Reggio reads the word in verse 23) but rather "even though", and assumes that verses 24-25 are not two distinct statements but one long one.  This read chooses not to read the "ה" as a "ה' השאלה".</fn></li> |
</ul> | </ul> | ||
<ul> | <ul> | ||
− | <li>Biur and R. Y"S Reggio instead assert that Avraham realized that Hashem meant to destroy Sedom via a messenger<fn>Avraham saw that the angels who had been speaking with him headed towards Sedom, leading him to conclude that they, rather than Hashem Himself, were sent to fulfill the decree of destruction.</fn> who would not be able to differentiate between good and evil.<fn>They compare this to the משחית in Egypt who also could not differentiate on his own between the Israelites and Egyptians.  when such messengers bring destruction, there is inevitably collective punishment and it is against this that Avraham is arguing.</fn>  He, thus, requests that Hashem save the entire immediate vicinity of the righteous so that they not perish with the wicked.</li> | + | <li>Biur and R. Y"S Reggio instead assert that Avraham realized that Hashem meant to destroy Sedom via a messenger<fn>Avraham saw that the angels who had been speaking with him headed towards Sedom, leading him to conclude that they, rather than Hashem Himself, were sent to fulfill the decree of destruction.</fn> who would not be able to differentiate between good and evil.<fn>They compare this to the משחית in Egypt who also could not differentiate on his own between the Israelites and Egyptians.  when such messengers bring destruction, there is inevitably collective punishment and it is against this that Avraham is arguing.</fn>  He, thus, requests that Hashem save the entire immediate vicinity of the righteous so that they not perish with the wicked.<fn>As evidence, R. Y"S Reggio points to the word "לְמַעַן" which he understands to mean "for the sake of" rather than "because of".  Avraham is asking Hashem to save the area immediately surrounding the worthy for their benefit. Cf. R. Hirsch above.</fn></li> |
</ul></point> | </ul></point> | ||
<point><b>Meaning of "לַמָּקוֹם"</b> – Seforno explains "לַמָּקוֹם" to refer to all of the people in the city whereas the Biur and R. Y"S Reggio explain it to mean the people in the specific area inhabited by the righteous.</point> | <point><b>Meaning of "לַמָּקוֹם"</b> – Seforno explains "לַמָּקוֹם" to refer to all of the people in the city whereas the Biur and R. Y"S Reggio explain it to mean the people in the specific area inhabited by the righteous.</point> | ||
<point><b>Relationship between verses 23-25</b> – <p>According to this approach all three verses form one argument, that justice demands that the righteous not be killed with the sinners. </p> | <point><b>Relationship between verses 23-25</b> – <p>According to this approach all three verses form one argument, that justice demands that the righteous not be killed with the sinners. </p> | ||
<ul> | <ul> | ||
− | <li>According to Seforno verse 23 is Avraham's opening question and then verses 24-25 together act as a reinforcing statement in which Avraham points out that although he does not expect the sinners to be saved,nonetheless the righteous should not die.</li> | + | <li>According to Seforno, verse 23 is Avraham's opening question and then verses 24-25 together act as a reinforcing statement in which Avraham points out that although he does not expect the sinners to be saved, nonetheless the righteous should not die.</li> |
− | <li>The Biur and R. Y"S Reggio instead read verse 24 as a suggestion of how to implement the justice requested in verse 23 | + | <li>The Biur and R. Y"S Reggio instead read verse 24 as a suggestion of how to implement the justice requested in verse 23.<fn>Hashem can save the righteous by not destroying the whole area in which they live.</fn> In verse 25, Avraham concludes that if his suggestion is not taken, injustice will be done.<fn>According to both these reads there is no back and forth in Avraham's argument, but one point leads to the next.</fn></li> |
+ | </ul></point> | ||
+ | <point><b>Collective Punishment</b> – According to the Biur and R. Y"S Reggio,<fn>Seforno likely agrees, but does not ay so explicitly.</fn> Avraham erroneously thought that Hashem meant to collectively punish the city.  In reality, Hashem knew all along that there were no righteous to save, and thus had no qualms about sending a messenger who would destroy indiscriminately.</point> | ||
+ | <point><b>Collective Salvation</b> – <p>These sources divide in their understanding of the role of collective salvation in the story:</p> | ||
+ | <ul> | ||
+ | <li>According to most of these commentators, even though Avraham only spoke about saving the righteous, Hashem responded that He would be even willing to save the wicked if there were sufficient righteous people to merit it.<fn>R. Y"S Reggio again points to the language used to prove his point.  In contrast to Avraham's usage of the word "לְמַעַן" (for the sake of), Hashem says he will save the wicked, "בַּעֲבוּרָם", due to them (or their merits).</fn> Thus, Hashem was not only willing to avert collective punishment but also willing to collectively save.<fn><p>According to these commentators, the conversation between Avraham and Hashem switches its focus after Avraham's initial request. Once Avraham realizes Hashem is willing to even save the wicked, he bargains to that end. These commentators, thus, are not bothered by the notion of collective salvation, and this is not what is driving their read of the verses. Perhaps they are simply uncomfortable with the notion of Avraham <i>demanding</i> something which is undeserved.</p></fn></li> | ||
+ | <li>According to the fragment from Qumran, in contrast, neither Avraham nor Hashem looked to save the sinners, as they did not deserve it.  A discomfort with the concept of collective salvation is probably motivating their entire read of the story.<fn><p>Knowing the strict nature of the Qumran community, it is not surprising that they would be motivated to read the story as one revolving around strict justice, with no room for mercy on the sinners.</p> | ||
+ | <p>?? comparison to the case of עיר נדחת</p></fn></li> | ||
</ul></point> | </ul></point> | ||
− | |||
− | |||
<point><b>Why does Avraham stop at 10?</b></point> | <point><b>Why does Avraham stop at 10?</b></point> | ||
− | <point><b>What happened at the end?</b></point> | + | <point><b>What happened at the end?</b> Seforno asserts that the messengers go to verify if there are any righteous, and conclude that there are not.</point> |
− | <point><b> | + | <point><b>Why was Lot saved?</b></point> |
<point><b>Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?</b> Seforno explains that</point> | <point><b>Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?</b> Seforno explains that</point> | ||
</category> | </category> |
Version as of 04:39, 6 November 2014
Avraham's Prayer for Sedom
Exegetical Approaches
Even for Sinners
Avraham wanted all of the people in Sedom to be saved. Commentators disagree, though, regarding whom Avraham was actively praying for:
For Both Righteous and Wicked
Avraham was praying for everyone in Sedom to be saved, both the righteous and the wicked.
Specifically for the Wicked
Avraham was only praying for the sinners, being certain that Hashem would save the righteous even without his request.
R. S"R Hirsch does not address the meaning of the word "הַאַף" but seems to be reading the phrase as if written "הַתִּסְפֶּה אַף צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע". He explains the word "תִּסְפֶּה" as to punish and suggests that Avraham is pointing out that by killing the sinners, the righteous are also, unjustly getting punished. After working hard to reform the wicked,1 it is distressful for them to see the people nonetheless perish.
For the Physical Location
Avraham was praying for both the righteous of Sedom, and that Hashem not destroy the land itself.
Only for the Righteous
Avraham was praying only for the righteous, that they should not die due to the rest of the people's sins.
These commentators all agree that these words are a continuation of Avraham's original argument, but differ in their specific understanding of the verse:
- In contrast to most commentators, Seforno reads these words of Avraham as a statement and not a question. Avraham is telling Hashem, "Even though You do not plan to save the wicked due to the righteous, it is still unfathomable that You should kill the righteous with the wicked..."19
- Biur and R. Y"S Reggio instead assert that Avraham realized that Hashem meant to destroy Sedom via a messenger20 who would not be able to differentiate between good and evil.21 He, thus, requests that Hashem save the entire immediate vicinity of the righteous so that they not perish with the wicked.22
According to this approach all three verses form one argument, that justice demands that the righteous not be killed with the sinners.
- According to Seforno, verse 23 is Avraham's opening question and then verses 24-25 together act as a reinforcing statement in which Avraham points out that although he does not expect the sinners to be saved, nonetheless the righteous should not die.
- The Biur and R. Y"S Reggio instead read verse 24 as a suggestion of how to implement the justice requested in verse 23.23 In verse 25, Avraham concludes that if his suggestion is not taken, injustice will be done.24
These sources divide in their understanding of the role of collective salvation in the story:
- According to most of these commentators, even though Avraham only spoke about saving the righteous, Hashem responded that He would be even willing to save the wicked if there were sufficient righteous people to merit it.26 Thus, Hashem was not only willing to avert collective punishment but also willing to collectively save.27
- According to the fragment from Qumran, in contrast, neither Avraham nor Hashem looked to save the sinners, as they did not deserve it. A discomfort with the concept of collective salvation is probably motivating their entire read of the story.28