Difference between revisions of "Avraham's Prayer for Sedom/2/en"

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<p>Avraham was only praying for the sinners, being certain that Hashem would save the righteous even without his request.</p>
 
<p>Avraham was only praying for the sinners, being certain that Hashem would save the righteous even without his request.</p>
 
<mekorot><multilink><a href="RSRHirschBereshit18-23-25" data-aht="source">R. S"R Hirsch</a><a href="RSRHirschBereshit18-23-25" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:23-25</a><a href="R. Samson Raphael Hirsch" data-aht="parshan">About R. Samson Raphael Hirsch</a></multilink></mekorot>
 
<mekorot><multilink><a href="RSRHirschBereshit18-23-25" data-aht="source">R. S"R Hirsch</a><a href="RSRHirschBereshit18-23-25" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:23-25</a><a href="R. Samson Raphael Hirsch" data-aht="parshan">About R. Samson Raphael Hirsch</a></multilink></mekorot>
<point><b>"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע"</b> – <p>R. S"R Hirsch explains the word "תִּסְפֶּה" as to punish.&#160; He says that by killing the sinners, the righteous are also getting punished because after working hard to reform the wicked,<fn>According to R. Hirsch, Avraham assumed that nay righteous person&#160; who lived in Sedom must have invested much effort in correcting his neighbors' behavior and tried to turn them towards the right path.</fn> it is distressful for to see them nonetheless perish.</p></point>
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<point><b>"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע"</b> – <p>R. S"R Hirsch explains the word "תִּסְפֶּה" as to punish.&#160; He says that by killing the sinners, the righteous are also getting punished because after working hard to reform the wicked,<fn>According to R. Hirsch, Avraham assumed that nay righteous person&#160; who lived in Sedom must have invested much effort in correcting his neighbors' behavior and tried to turn them towards the right path.</fn> it is distressful to see them nonetheless perish.</p></point>
 
<point><b>"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם"</b> – R. Hirsch distinguishes between the terms "לְמַעַן" and "בגלל", asserting that the former means "for the good of" rather than "because of".&#160; Thus, Avraham was praying that all of the people in the city be saved as a reward for the righteous,<fn>See above that the righteous would be pained to watch the destruction of their&#160; neighbors whom they had tried so valiantly (though unsuccessfully) to reform.</fn> but not due to their righteousness.<fn>R. Hirsch might be hesitant to suggest that the wicked simply be saved collectively with the righteous, since they do not really deserve pardon.&#160; Thus, he instead has Avraham justify their salvation by pointing out how their destruction would be an unjust punishment for others.</fn></point>
 
<point><b>"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם"</b> – R. Hirsch distinguishes between the terms "לְמַעַן" and "בגלל", asserting that the former means "for the good of" rather than "because of".&#160; Thus, Avraham was praying that all of the people in the city be saved as a reward for the righteous,<fn>See above that the righteous would be pained to watch the destruction of their&#160; neighbors whom they had tried so valiantly (though unsuccessfully) to reform.</fn> but not due to their righteousness.<fn>R. Hirsch might be hesitant to suggest that the wicked simply be saved collectively with the righteous, since they do not really deserve pardon.&#160; Thus, he instead has Avraham justify their salvation by pointing out how their destruction would be an unjust punishment for others.</fn></point>
 
<point><b>Meaning of&#160; "לַמָּקוֹם"</b> – This approach maintains that "לַמָּקוֹם" is a general term for all of the people of the city.</point>
 
<point><b>Meaning of&#160; "לַמָּקוֹם"</b> – This approach maintains that "לַמָּקוֹם" is a general term for all of the people of the city.</point>
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<point><b>"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם"</b> – According to all these sources, these words serve as a request that Hashem should not destroy the city itself,<fn>Ma'asei Hashem rejects the possibility that the verse refers to all of the people of the city, wicked included, since it is unfathomable that Avraham should ask that sinners who had not repented should go unpunished.&#160; In addition, he asserts that Avraham is explicitly asking that justice be done and saving the sinners is not an act of justice, but rather of mercy.</fn> but the commentators differ in their understanding of Avrahams' reasoning.&#160;&#160; Radak asserts that Avraham was requesting that the city be saved due to the merit of the righteous people while Ma'asei Hashem maintains that Avraham did not think it just that the righteous should lose their land.<fn>He adds that Avraham might be further motivated to save the land because it belonged to him as part of Hashem's promise.</fn></point>
 
<point><b>"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם"</b> – According to all these sources, these words serve as a request that Hashem should not destroy the city itself,<fn>Ma'asei Hashem rejects the possibility that the verse refers to all of the people of the city, wicked included, since it is unfathomable that Avraham should ask that sinners who had not repented should go unpunished.&#160; In addition, he asserts that Avraham is explicitly asking that justice be done and saving the sinners is not an act of justice, but rather of mercy.</fn> but the commentators differ in their understanding of Avrahams' reasoning.&#160;&#160; Radak asserts that Avraham was requesting that the city be saved due to the merit of the righteous people while Ma'asei Hashem maintains that Avraham did not think it just that the righteous should lose their land.<fn>He adds that Avraham might be further motivated to save the land because it belonged to him as part of Hashem's promise.</fn></point>
 
<point><b>Meaning of "לַמָּקוֹם"</b> – This approach holds that "לַמָּקוֹם" means literally the land itself.</point>
 
<point><b>Meaning of "לַמָּקוֹם"</b> – This approach holds that "לַמָּקוֹם" means literally the land itself.</point>
<point><b>Relationship between verses 23-25</b> – According to these commentators the verses contain two different requests, that the righteous be saved (verses 23 and 25) and that the land not be destroyed (verse 24).&#160; According to Ma'asei Hashem the common denominator is the demand that justice be done.&#160; However, it is unclear why Avraham goes back and forth between his different requests.</point>
+
<point><b>Relationship between verses 23-25</b> – According to these commentators the verses contain two different requests, that the righteous be saved (verses 23 and 25) and that the land not be destroyed (verse 24).&#160; According to Ma'asei Hashem the common denominator is the demand that justice be done to the worthy people of the city.&#160; However, it is unclear why Avraham goes back and forth between his different requests.</point>
<point><b>Collective Punishment</b> – This approach maintains that Hashem had never planned to collectively punish Sedom; there were simply no righteous people to save.&#160; Avraham, however, was unaware of this reality and mistakenly thought that Hashem was going to unjustly destroy them and their land.</point>
+
<point><b>Collective Punishment</b> – This approach might maintain that Hashem had never planned to collectively punish Sedom; there were simply no righteous people to save.&#160; Avraham, however, was unaware of this reality and mistakenly thought that Hashem was going to unjustly destroy them and their land.</point>
<point><b>Collective Salvation</b> – According to this approach both Hashem and Avraham wanted the sinners to be punished as it would be unjust for them to be saved.</point>
+
<point><b>Collective Salvation</b> – According to this approach both Hashem and Avraham wanted the sinners to be punished as it would be unjust for them to be saved.<fn>This issue is one of the motivating factors leading Ma'asei Hashem to understand that the discussion in verse 24 is about the land rather than the wicked of the city.</fn></point>
 
<point><b>What happened at the end?</b> The land and people were destroyed since there were no righteous people.&#160; Lot was saved, not due to his goodness, but out of kindness to Avraham.</point>
 
<point><b>What happened at the end?</b> The land and people were destroyed since there were no righteous people.&#160; Lot was saved, not due to his goodness, but out of kindness to Avraham.</point>
<point><b>Was Avraham's Prayer Accepted?</b> According to this approach Avraham's prayer was not accepted at the end since there were not enough righteous people to save the land and there weren't any righteous in the city to be saved.</point>
 
 
<point><b>Was Lot Righteous?</b> Radak and Ma'asei Hashem both maintain that Lot was not righteous and was only saved because of Avraham.</point>
 
<point><b>Was Lot Righteous?</b> Radak and Ma'asei Hashem both maintain that Lot was not righteous and was only saved because of Avraham.</point>
 
<point><b>Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?</b> These commentators could explain like <multilink><a href="RashbamBereshit18-17" data-aht="source">Rashbam</a><a href="RashbamBereshit18-17" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:17</a><a href="R. Shemuel b. Meir (Rashbam)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Shemuel b. Meir</a></multilink> that Hashem told Avraham about Sedom because Hashem was going to destroy land which belonged to Avraham.</point>
 
<point><b>Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?</b> These commentators could explain like <multilink><a href="RashbamBereshit18-17" data-aht="source">Rashbam</a><a href="RashbamBereshit18-17" data-aht="source">Bereshit 18:17</a><a href="R. Shemuel b. Meir (Rashbam)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Shemuel b. Meir</a></multilink> that Hashem told Avraham about Sedom because Hashem was going to destroy land which belonged to Avraham.</point>

Version as of 23:09, 5 November 2014

Avraham's Prayer for Sedom

Exegetical Approaches

THIS TOPIC IS CURRENTLY IN PROGRESS

Even for Sinners

Avraham wanted all of the people in Sedom to be saved.  Commentators disagree, though, regarding whom Avraham was actively praying for:

For Both Righteous and Wicked

Avraham was praying for everyone in Sedom to be saved, both the righteous and the wicked.

"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע"
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם"
What does "לַמָּקוֹם" mean?
Relationship between verses 23-25
Collective Punishment
Collective Salvation
What happened at the end?
Was Avraham's Prayer Accepted?
Was Lot Righteous?
Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?

Specifically for the Wicked

Avraham was only praying for the sinners, being certain that Hashem would save the righteous even without his request.

"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע"

R. S"R Hirsch explains the word "תִּסְפֶּה" as to punish.  He says that by killing the sinners, the righteous are also getting punished because after working hard to reform the wicked,1 it is distressful to see them nonetheless perish.

"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם" – R. Hirsch distinguishes between the terms "לְמַעַן" and "בגלל", asserting that the former means "for the good of" rather than "because of".  Thus, Avraham was praying that all of the people in the city be saved as a reward for the righteous,2 but not due to their righteousness.3
Meaning of  "לַמָּקוֹם" – This approach maintains that "לַמָּקוֹם" is a general term for all of the people of the city.
"חָלִלָה לְּךָ מֵעֲשֹׂת כַּדָּבָר הַזֶּה לְהָמִית צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע" – This sentence is problematic for R. Hirsch, since it implies that Avraham is bothered by the possibility that the righteous will actually be killed (and not just distressed by the deaths of others).4
Relationship between verses 23-25 – The three verses all constitute one request and refer only to the saving of the wicked.
Collective Punishment – According to R. S"R Hirsch, Avraham is not arguing about the injustice of collective punishment; it was obvious to him all along that Hashem would not kill the righteous.
Collective Salvation – According to R. Hirsch there is no collective salvation either.  Hashem agrees to save the wicked if there are a portion of righteous in the city, not because they are part of the collective, but because the very presence of righteous people proves that the wicked tolerated them and thus were not totally corrupt.5
What happened at the end? Though Hashem accepts Avraham's prayer, apparently there were not enough righteous people to be found to enable a saving of the wicked.
Was Avraham's Prayer Accepted?
Was Lot Righteous? R. Hirsch writes that Lot was "only with difficulty worthy of salvation".  It was God's attribute of mercy rather than justice which saved him.
Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom?

Only for the Righteous

Avraham was praying only for the righteous, that they should not die due to the rest of the people's sins.

"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע" – Avraham is asking that the righteous should be saved and not die with the sinners.
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם"

These commentators differ in the understanding of this verse:

  • Seforno explains
  • Biur and R. Y"S Reggio say
What does "לַמָּקוֹם" mean? Seforno explains "לַמָּקוֹם" to refer to all of the people in the city whereas the Biur and R. Y"S Reggio explain it to mean the people in the area where the righteous live.
Relationship between verses 23-25
Collective Punishment – R. Y"S Reggio
Collective Salvation
What happened at the end?
Was Avraham's Prayer Accepted?
Was Lot Righteous?
Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom? Seforno explains that

For the Physical Location

Avraham was praying for both the righteous of Sedom, and that Hashem not destroy the land itself.

"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע" – This approach reads this verse in its simple sense, to mean that Avraham was requesting that Hashem not kill the righteous with the wicked.
"הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם" – According to all these sources, these words serve as a request that Hashem should not destroy the city itself,6 but the commentators differ in their understanding of Avrahams' reasoning.   Radak asserts that Avraham was requesting that the city be saved due to the merit of the righteous people while Ma'asei Hashem maintains that Avraham did not think it just that the righteous should lose their land.7
Meaning of "לַמָּקוֹם" – This approach holds that "לַמָּקוֹם" means literally the land itself.
Relationship between verses 23-25 – According to these commentators the verses contain two different requests, that the righteous be saved (verses 23 and 25) and that the land not be destroyed (verse 24).  According to Ma'asei Hashem the common denominator is the demand that justice be done to the worthy people of the city.  However, it is unclear why Avraham goes back and forth between his different requests.
Collective Punishment – This approach might maintain that Hashem had never planned to collectively punish Sedom; there were simply no righteous people to save.  Avraham, however, was unaware of this reality and mistakenly thought that Hashem was going to unjustly destroy them and their land.
Collective Salvation – According to this approach both Hashem and Avraham wanted the sinners to be punished as it would be unjust for them to be saved.8
What happened at the end? The land and people were destroyed since there were no righteous people.  Lot was saved, not due to his goodness, but out of kindness to Avraham.
Was Lot Righteous? Radak and Ma'asei Hashem both maintain that Lot was not righteous and was only saved because of Avraham.
Why does Hashem tell Avraham about Sedom? These commentators could explain like RashbamBereshit 18:17About R. Shemuel b. Meir that Hashem told Avraham about Sedom because Hashem was going to destroy land which belonged to Avraham.