Chronological and Thematic Order/2

Chronological and Thematic Order

Exegetical Approaches

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Technical Displacement: Minor Details

At times, achronology in the text is a result of technical literary issues. In many cases, the majority and core of a given story is recorded in its proper chronological place and it is just one or two secondary components which are displaced. The displaced unit might be moved from elsewhere to join and thereby complete the central story ("להשלים את הענין") or it might be separated from the main narrative so as not to interrupt the story line ("לא להפסיק את הענין").

Preludes and Epilogues: "להשלים את הענין"

A subordinate component of a story might be moved from its proper chronological place so as to complete a central narrative. It can take the form of a prelude before the main story or an epilogue at the end.

Prelude

An event which occurred earlier is displaced to serve as an introduction and provide necessary background to a later story.

Birth of Kayin and Hevel (Bereshit 4:1) – According to RashiBereshit 4:1Yeshayahu 1:1About R. Shelomo Yitzchaki, the birth of Kayin and Hevel took place already in the Garden of Eden, before the expulsion.¹ It is mentioned afterwards, in Chapter 4, only because it is necessary to open the Kayin and Hevel story.

Sarah conceives (Bereshit 21:1) – According to several commentators,² Sarah had conceived before or in the middle of the story of Avimelekh described in Bereshit 20.³  The fact is recorded here, though, so as to introduce the story of Yitzchak's birth and weaning.

Marriage of Amram and Yocheved (Shemot 2:1) – R"Y Bekhor ShorShemot 2:1About R. Yosef Bekhor Shor maintains that Amram and Yocheved had married before the decree of Paroh discussed in Shemot 1.⁴ Their marriage is mentioned later so as to properly open the story of Moshe's birth and its aftermath.

Pesach (Bemidbar 9) – AbarbanelBemidbar 9About R. Yitzchak Abarbanel suggests that the story of the impure who could not participate in the Pesach of the first year is mentioned in the beginning of Bemidbar 9, not because it occurred there, but only to serve as a prelude to the main story of the unit, Pesach Sheni.⁵ Without the background of the events of the first month, the request of the impure would not make sense to the reader.

Shemuel's death (Shemuel I 28:3) – The death of Shemuel is mentioned in the beginning of the story of the Ba'alat Ha'Ov even though it occurred back in Shemuel I 25, as it provides important background to understand the story's continuation and revival of the prophet.

Epilogue

A component of a story which is only to occur later is moved earlier to provide closure to the main unit.

Death notices – The deaths of the various characters in Sefer Bereshit are recorded already when they fade from the scene,⁶ rather then in the middle of later narratives when they chronologically occurred.⁷ The achronology is motivated by a desire to provide closure to each protagonist's individual story.⁸

The manna (Shemot 16:32-35) – Shemot 16 tells the story of the manna's initial arrival in the first year in the Wilderness, but it also mentions its later preservation near the Ark⁹ and its being eaten throughout the forty years of wandering. Despite the fact that these added details occur only later, they are placed here to close the unit.¹⁰  [For a spectrum of opinions regarding the specific timing of the events mentioned in the epilogue, see Epilogue to the Manna Story.]

Recording the battle of Amalek (Shemot 17:14) – After the battle of Amalek, Hashem tells Moshe to record the event for posterity in "the book" and to speak to Yehoshua about wiping out Amalek. Ibn EzraShemot Short Commentary 17:14About R. Avraham ibn Ezra posits that this was first commanded in the fortieth year.¹¹  In order to finish the story, however, the directive is recorded here.

Yitro's departure (Shemot 18:27) – ShadalBereshit 11:32Bemidbar 8:7Bemidbar 20:1About R. Shemuel David Luzzatto¹² posits that the story of Yitro's arrival, advice, and its implementation all occurred where found, in Shemot 18 before the Revelation at Sinai, but that Yitro's departure took place only later. Though Yitro first left in the second year, the fact is recorded already in Shemot to "complete the story".¹³  [See Chronology – Shemot 18 for elaboration and for those who maintain that other parts of the story, too, might only be mentioned here to "finish the narrative".]

Incense altar  (Shemot 30:1-10) – See the discussion in Purpose and Placement of the Incense Altar¹⁴ for the possibility that the directive to build the Mishkan preceded the Sin of the Golden Calf, but that the Incense Altar was commanded only in its aftermath.  If so, the proper placement of the command should be after the sin in Shemot 34, but it is mentioned earlier to close the unit on the vessels of the Mishkan.¹⁵

Erecting the Tabernacle (Shemot 40) – According to those who maintain that the Days of Consecration of the Mishkan (described in Vayikra 8-9) began on the 23rd of Adar,¹⁶ the description of the erection of the Mishkan on the first of Nissan (described in Shemot 40) is out of place. One might suggest that it is mentioned here only to serve as an epilogue to the unit of chapters discussing the building of the Mishkan.¹⁷

Clouds on the Mishkan (Shemot 40:36-38) – After discussing the erection of the Tabernacle in Shemot 40, the final verses of the chapter speak of the role to be played by the cloud as an indicator of when to travel, adding that this was a constant throughout their journeys in the Wilderness (ie. throughout the forty years). Though this refers to what is to occur in the future, it is mentioned here as a conclusion to the discussion of the cloud of glory which descended on the Mishkan when it was constructed.

Conquest of Canaanite cities (Bemidbar 21:3) – RambanBemidbar 21:1About R. Moshe b. Nachman suggests that the conquest of the Canaanite cities mentioned here occurred first in Shofetim 1:16-17.  It is mentioned already here, though, to complete the story, telling the reader how the nation's vow was fulfilled..

Summary

An episode which occurred and was explicitly mentioned earlier in Tanakh is repeated in order to serve as a summary to a unit.

Headings

An event which is soon to be discussed in the text is mentioned already in the heading of the unit, letting the reader know what is to come.  This might take the form of a "כלל ופרט", a general formulation followed by details.

Prologues and Appendices: "לא להפסיק את הענין"

Secondary narrative components might be moved to form a prologue at the very beginning of a unit or an appendix at the end because setting them in their proper chronological place in the middle of the central unit would otherwise break the flow of the main narrative . The episode or topic which is displaced is either irrelevant to the main theme or message of the unit, of lesser import, or of a different literary character.

Prologues

An event is moved from its correct chronological place later in the text and placed at the very beginning of the unit where it will not disrupt the main topic.

Bemidbar 1-6 – Though the opening census or Sefer Bemidbar is dated to the second month (Bemidbar 1:1-3), and really occurs in between the events of Chapters 9 and 10, placing such an extensive list of numbers there would break up the main narrative of the book. As such, the Torah might have preferred to incorporate the non-narrative material of Chapters 1-6 as a prologue to the book where it would not interrupt the stories of the Wilderness  journey.

Appendices

An episode is moved from its correct chronological place earlier in the narrative and placed at the very end of the unit where it will not disrupt the main topic.

Marriage to Keturah (Bereshit 25:1-6) – According to ShadalBereshit 11:32Shemot 18:1Bemidbar 8:7Bemidbar 20:1About R. Shemuel David Luzzatto, Avraham's marriage to Keturah occurred before Sarah's death and not where it is found. Since the story is tangential to the main narrative which focuses on the formation of the Nation of Israel, it is put as an appendix to the Avraham stories rather than in its proper chronological place. [For elaboration and dissenting opinions, see Avraham's Many Wives]

Genealogy lists (Bereshit 25, 36) – The genealogies of Yishmael and Esav are listed as appendices to the Avraham and Yitzchak stories respectively.¹⁸  Even though some of their descendants were likely born during the lives of their grandparents,¹⁹ the list is mentioned only at the end of the entire cycle of stories so as not to interrupt the main narrative which focuses on the chosen rather than rejected lines.

Moshe's Blessings (Devarim 33) – Ibn EzraDevarim 31:1About R. Avraham ibn Ezra suggests that Moshe's final blessings to the nation were given over beforehand, in Devarim 31, when he went to encourage the nation and Yehoshua. Due to the unique poetic character of the speech which would be intrusive in place, they are pushed to the end of the book.

End of Sefer Shofetim – Several commentators²⁰ assume that the stories of "the idol of Michah" and the "concubine of Givah" discussed in Shofetim 17-21 occurred much earlier in Sefer Shofetim.²¹ However, as they deviate from the cycle of sin, oppression, return, and salvation that marks the rest of the book, they are set apart and recorded only at the end

End of Sefer Shemuel – The composition of David's song of Shemuel I 22 and the feats of David's warriors listed in Shemuel II 23 likely occurred at various points earlier in David's career,²² but are grouped as appendices at the end of the book. Here, too, this might be due to the unique nature of the material (poetry / list) and different focus (David's men rather than David) which set them apart from the narrative of the rest of the book.

Miscellaneous

Thematic Arrangement: Parallel Units

Tanakh will often prefer thematic ordering over strict chronology, juxtaposing related material even if this means not adhering to a historical timeline.  This is perhaps most evident when components of two independent stories overlap in time. Tanakh will focus on each story individually rather than constantly switching back and forth between the two. As such, the same overall time period might be discussed from different vantage points, with material grouped by varying protagonists, perspectives, literary genre or other factors.

Figures

Tanakh will often focus on one individual protagonist at a time, even if this means compromising on chronological order.

Births of Yaakov's Children – A simple reading of Bereshit 29-30 might imply that Yaakov's twelve children were born consecutively.  Yet as this would seem to leave just a little over 6 years for the births of all 12 children,²³ several commentators suggest that some of the births must have overlapped.²⁴ Tanakh, though, preferred to separate the stories of each mother, listing each of their births together and only then moving on to the next mother. See opinions in The Births and Relative Ages of Yaakov's Children for elaboration and other approaches.

Yehuda vs. Yosef – The personal story of Yehuda's marriage and children (Bereshit 38) takes place over many years and parts of it likely overlapped with the stories of both Yosef's sale (Bereshit 37) and Yosef's stay in Egypt (Bereshit 39ff).²⁵  Tanakh, though, separates the narratives of the two figures, placing the entire Yehuda tale together so as not to have to constantly interweave the two story lines.²⁶ [See The Births and Relative Ages of Yaakov's Children and Purpose of the Yehuda and Tamar Story for more.]

Preparation for revelation (Shemot 19 and 24) – According to RashiShemot 19:11About R. Shelomo Yitzchaki, the story of the covenant and ceremony described in Shemot 24 took place during the three days of preparations discussed in Shemot 19.   It is possible that, despite this, the stories are distinguished because they have distinct foci; while Shemot 19 highlights the role of the nation and laymen, Shemot 24 focuses on the elders.

Bilam and Israel – See Why Was Hashem Angry at Bilam for those who suggest that the interactions between Bilam and Balak in Bemidbar 22-24 take place at the same time as the story of the Sin of Baal Peor in Bemidbar 25.  Here, too, the same time period is discussed from two vantage points, one focusing on what was occurring among Israel's enemies and the other on what was happening in the Israelite camp itself.

Yehoshua's Spies – As there would not seem to be enough time for the story of the sending of Yehoshua's spies and their escape to take place between Yehoshua 1 and 3, some have suggested that it overlaps with the events of Chapter 1.²⁷ Tanakh , though, opted for thematic order, first telling of all of Yehoshua's interactions with the nation and then focusing on the two spies.

The Shofetim – The book of Shofetim presents the tenures of each judge as being consecutive, yet, due to the dating given in Shofetim 11:26, there is reason to suggest that they actually overlapped²⁸ and that parts of the book are achronological.²⁹  Here, too, Tanakh prefers thematic order, opting to tell the story of each judge individually.

Shaul and David – Shemuel I 30 and 31 appear to occur simultaneously. David returns to Ziklag and fights the Amalekites at the same time that Shaul and the Israelite army are being defeated by the Philistines on the Mountains of Gilboa.³⁰ As Tanakh cannot show both events with a split screen and does not want to interweave the two events line by line, it focuses on one protagonist at a time.

Reigns of the Judean and Israelite kings – The book of Melakhim alternates between the reigns of the kings of Yehuda and Yisrael, focusing on only one kingdom at a time, even though this means that certain elements of each king's reign are told out of order.

Personal vs. National Perspective

When a hero's interactions on the political / national level overlap with what is going on in his personal life, Tanakh will often separate the two strands of the story rather constantly switching back and forth to maintain chronological order.

Banishment of Yishmael – R. Saadia GaonCommentary Bereshit 6:3Commentary Bereshit 11:31Commentary Bereshit 24:22Commentary Bereshit 24:29About R. Saadia Gaon, R"Y Kara and Rashbam all imply that the story of the covenant with Avimelekh took place after Yitzchak's birth but before or in the middle of the story of Yishmael's banishment.³¹  Tanakh might have relayed the events achronologically as it preferred to group the episodes that touch on Avraham's personal family life separately from those which relate to his interactions with outsiders.³²

Yitzchak Stories – Bereshit 25 tells of Yitzchak's marriage, the birth of Yaakov and Esav, and their upbringing. These events likely overlapped with those of Bereshit 26, with the first half of Bereshit 26 (the wife-sister story) occurring before the birth³³ and the second half (the covenant) taking place later on.  Rather than interweaving the various elements of each story as a strict chronology would dictate, Torah separates the personal and political strands of the Yitzchak narrative.

Yosef in Egypt – After narrating the story of Yosef's interactions with his brothers in Bereshit 42-46, Chapter 47 speaks of how the Egyptians themselves fared throughout the famine. If Bereshit 47:18's mention of the "שָּׁנָה הַשֵּׁנִית" refers to the second year of the famine³⁴ (rather than two years after the family's arrival in Egypt), then the events of the chapter overlap with those of the previous ones. Here, too Torah portrays the same time period from two perspectives, the personal and political, first focusing on Yosef and his family and then on Yosef and the Egyptians.

Shaul meeting David – See Chronology of Shemuel I 16 – 17 for an approach which suggests that the search for a musician described in Shemuel I 16 took place during the war with the Philistines described in Chapter 17.³⁵  Tanakh, though, tells of each event alone, with Chapter 16 focusing on events relating to the personal life of Shaul, and Chapter 17 focuses on those that relate to Israel at large. 

David and Batsheva – The story of David's sin with Batsheva and its aftermath spans Shemuel II 11-12, and takes place over at least two years.  This likely overlapped with the end of the ward against Ammon described in 12:26-31, yet the two events are told as independent stories with Tanakh focusing on the personal and national spheres separately.

Individual vs. Universal

Torah might prefer to separate discussions that are of universal import from those which focus on the individual.

Two Stories of Creation – The achronology found in the two accounts of Creation can be explained by positing that Tanakh is telling the same event from two perspectives, starting with the universal and then narrowing in to focus on the creation of Adam. For further discussion, see Two Accounts of Creation.

Law vs. Narrative

Torah tends to separate its discussion of legal and narrative material. Thus, even if a unit of laws was relayed over a period of time and other events occurred simultaneously, Torah will distinguish between the two.

YItro'a arrival – Rashbam posits that all of Chapter 18 (Yitro's arival. advice and its implementation) occured after receiving the Decalogue but before the construction of the Tabernacle.  It is placed earlier in order not to break up the continuity of the legal section which follows with an unrelated narrative.

The People's Fear

Two Authors

Homiletical Reasons

Defense of Avot

Message for Future

¹ The past perfect form, "וְהָאָדָם יָדַע" might be an indicator of achronology.

² See RashiBereshit 21:1Shemot 31:18Bemidbar 9:1Yehoshua 8:30Yeshayahu 1:1About R. Shelomo Yitzchaki, R. Avraham SabaTzeror HaMor Bereshit 21:1About R. Avraham Saba (Tzeror HaMor), and MalbimBereshit 21:1About R. Meir Leibush Weiser. They note that this is hinted to in the text as it employs the past perfect form of "פקד". [None of these commentators, however, offer a literay explanation for the achronology like that suggested here.]

³ Malbim points out that he past perfect form of "וַי״י פָּקַד" is an indicator of achronology.  These sources suggest that Sarah had conceived enough before the incident with Avimelekh that, when Yitzchak was born, no one could mistake Avimelekh for the father.

⁴ Since the story only speaks about the attempt to hide Moshe, it seems likely that Aharon and Miriam were born before the decree.

⁵ In this case the achronology is explicit in the text.  Bemidbar 1 opens in the second month, while Bemidbar 9 speaks of the Pesach in the first month and only afterwards returns to speak of Pesach Sheni in the second month.

⁶ For examples, see the mention of the death of Noach in Bereshit 9:29, Terach in Bereshit 11:31-32, Avraham in Bereshit 25:8, and Yitzchak in Bereshit 35:29.

⁷ Using the genealogy lists and birth / death notices to calculate the ages of various characters, it becomes apparent that Noach lived for 52 years after Avraham's birth, Terach first died 60 years after the command of "לך-לך", Avraham died when Yaakov and Esav were fifteen, and Yitzchak died 12 years after the sale of Yosef. Yet, none of the deaths are recorded at these points.

⁸ See R. Saadia GaonCommentary Bereshit 11:31About R. Saadia Gaon, Ibn EzraBereshit Second Commentary 9:29Bereshit Additional Commentary 11:32About R. Avraham ibn Ezra and RambanBereshit 11:32About R. Moshe b. Nachman.

⁹ The verse's statement, "וַיַּנִּיחֵהוּ אַהֲרֹן לִפְנֵי הָעֵדֻת לְמִשְׁמָרֶת" suggests that Aharon placed the manna near the Ark (the "testimony"), an act which could have only occurred in the second year, after the Ark was built.

¹⁰ See Ibn Ezra Shemot Second Commentary 12:50About R. Avraham ibn Ezraand RambanBemidbar 21:1About R. Moshe b. Nachman who both point to this as the classic example and prototype of the many cases in Torah where the text appends information which happened only significantly later so as to complete a story.

¹¹ He is motivated by the fact that it is only in the fortieth year that it was known that Yehoshua alone was to head the Conquest and only by then was the "book," the Sefer Torah, extant. Cf. Rashi who disagrees and maintains chronological order, asserting that already here, Hashem hinted to Moshe that he was not to enter the land and that Yehoshua was to lead after his death.  Alternatively,one might suggest that Yehoshua is mentioned due to the role he played in the present battle, and not because of his future position of leadership.

¹² This is one of two possible reading of the story raised by Shadal.

¹³ Shadal identifies "חֹבָב בֶּן רְעוּאֵל הַמִּדְיָנִי חֹתֵן מֹשֶׁה" mentioned in Bemidbar 10 with Yitro, and assumes that his departure there is what is mentioned briefly at the end of Shemot 18. [In Shemot the text quickly mentions the fact to close the story, but leaves the details for Bemidbar when the departure actually took place.]

¹⁴ See also R"M Speigelman's article, "פרשת ויקהל (שקלים) - המשכן לאחר חטא העגל".

¹⁵ However, to highlight that the Incense Altar was not part of the original command, the directive appears after the unit's concluding verses.

¹⁶ See Sifre Bemidbar7About Sifre Bemidbar and Rashi and RambanVayikra 8:2About R. Moshe b. Nachman in its wake.

¹⁷ See, though, Ramban's attempt to explain that really the entire chapter is in its chronological place and took place on the first day of the Milluim.  [Ramban follows Chazal in suggesting that the Tabernacle was erected and disassembled on each of the Seven Days of Consecration.  He thus, suggests that the chapter describes Hashem's directives regarding the entire week, but only the fulfillment of part of them, the initial construction of the Tabernacle on the first day. As such, the chapter is chronological with the exception of the description of the cloud descending on the Tabernacle (Shemot 40:34-38).  This, he explains, only occurred on the eighth day but is mentioned earlier to "complete the story".]

¹⁸ Alternatively, one may view them as prologues to the stories of Yitzchak and Yaakov's descendants.  Before moving to speak at length about the chosen line, the main focus of the text, the Torah quickly reviews what happened to the rejected line.

¹⁹ There are descendants (such as the kings which emerged from Esav) mentioned that were only born much later as well.  These are included to complete the list.

²⁰ See Seder Olam Rabbah12About Seder Olam Rabbah, RashiShofetim 17:1Yeshayahu 1:1About R. Shelomo Yitzchaki, and RalbagShofetim 17:1About R. Levi b. Gershom.

²¹ This, in part, is motivated by the fact that Pinechas, the grandson of Aharon, appears in the story of the Concubine of Givah.  If the story is told in its chronological place, this would make him hundreds of years old! Rashi adds that regarding the idol of Michah the verse states that it was "In Shiloh all the days" suggesting that it existed from the very beginning of the Shiloh period.

²² The song is said to have been composed as praise for David's salvation from Shaul (suggesting that it was composed either during Shaul's lifetme or soon after his death) and the warrior list includes people who are no longer alive at the end of the book.

²³ The simplest reading of the text seems to be that Yaakov married Leah after completing his first seven years of labor for Lavan and that Yosef, his twelfth child, was born at the end of his second seven year stint.  This leaves just 6 years for the births.

²⁴ Lekach TovBereshit 29:32About R. Toviah b. Eliezer suggests that Bilhah and Zilpah's pregnancies overlapped with those of Leah, while Ibn EzraBereshit First Commentary 30:23About R. Avraham ibn Ezra and SefornoBereshit 30:8About R. Ovadyah Seforno suggest that it was Bilhah's and Zilpah's pregnancies which overlapped. Ibn Ezra also raises the possibilities that Zevulun and Dinah were twins.

²⁵ Bereshit 46:12 shares that at the time of the descent to Egypt, Peretz (Tamar and Yehuda's son) has already sired two children. As Yehuda had relations with Tamar only after his own sons were of marriageable age, if Yehuda's marriage to Bat-Shua first took place after the sale of Yosef, this would leave only 22 years for Yehuda to produce three generations worth of progeny - his own sons, Tamar's children, and Peretz's sons!  This leads Ibn EzraBereshit First Commentary 38:1About R. Avraham ibn Ezra, RalbagBereshit Beur HaParashah 38:1About R. Levi b. Gershom and ShadalBereshit 38:1About R. Shemuel David Luzzatto  to claim that at least the beginning of Chapter 38 took place before the sale.
On the other end, as the rest of the Yehuda story stretches over many years, telling of the growth of his children and their own marriages, it is likely that some of these events took place after Yosef was already taken to Egypt.

²⁶ This, however, does not explain why Torah did not place the Yehuda story before the sale, which would have allowed all the Yosef stories to run consecutively.  It is possible that the placement in the middle serves to clue the reader in to the fact that the stories overlap.

²⁷ The spies were perhaps sent after Hashem encouraged Yehoshua, but before Yehoshua spoke to the officers and the 2 1/2 tribes.Their escape and stay in the mountains likely overlapped with these conversations and the days in which the people prepared to cross the Jordan.

²⁸ In Shofetim 11:26, Yiftach asserts that 300 years passed from the conquest of the lands of Sichon until his own time period. However, if one calculates all the years of oppression and quiet in Sefer Shofetim plus the years of the Conquest and division of the land, one reaches more than the 300 years allotted. [There were 8 years of oppression by Kushan and 40 years of quiet under Otniel, 18 years of servitude to Eglon and 80 of quiet under Ehud, 20 years of oppession by Canaan and 40 years under Devorah, 7 years of trouble by Midyan and 40 of quiet under Gidon, 3 years in which Avimelekh reigned, 23 years of Tola, 22 years of Yair and 18 years of oppression by Ammon before Yiftach. This alone amounts to 321 years and does not include the years of the Conquest and Inheritance.]

²⁹ See Prof. Elitzur's comments to Shofetim 11:26 in Da'at MIkra, Sefer Shofetim (Jerusalem, 1976): 127. Cf. Seder Olam Rabbah12About Seder Olam Rabbah and RashiShofetim 11:26About R. Shelomo Yitzchaki, though, who maintain that the judges were in fact consecutive, and that some of the years of oppression overlapped with the years that the judges were said to rule, allowing for a shorter time period. This is difficult, though, because the text employs the language of "and there was quiet for "x" amount of years". Quiet implies that the nation was not oppressed at the time.

³⁰ The chapters allude to the fact that chronologically Chapter 31 directly follows Chapter 29, by opening Chapter 31 with a resumptive repetition, " וּפְלִשְׁתִּים נִלְחָמִים בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל", letting the reader know that the story is resuming from where it left off earlier. As Rashi says, "כאדם האומר נחזור לענין ראשון".

³¹ The opening words of the unit, "וַיְהִי בָּעֵת הַהִוא", imply that the story does not follow what took place beforehand but overlaps with it.

³² In this case, the tight connection between the stories of the birth and expulsion would further motivate grouping them together.

³³ Otherwise it is very difficult to understand how Avimelekh did not know of Rivka and Yitzchak's marital status.

³⁴ See Rashi, Ma'asei Hashem and Netziv.

³⁵ The "רוּחַ רָעָה" that plagued Shaul wasn't a purely supernatural phenomenon, but rather a natural reaction to stress.  This theory answers a number of difficulties in the text such as how Shaul has no idea who David at the end of Chapter 17.  According to the theory, Shaul first met David when he volunteered to fight Golyat, so there is no expectation that Shaul should have already known him.