Difference between revisions of "Did Shemuel Come Back to Life/2"

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<p>Ba'alat HaOv had powers to bring Shemuel back to life.</p>
 
<p>Ba'alat HaOv had powers to bring Shemuel back to life.</p>
 
<mekorot>
 
<mekorot>
<multilink><aht source="BavliChagigah4b">Bavli Chagigah</aht><aht source="BavliChagigah4b">Chagigah 4b</aht><aht parshan="Talmud Bavli">About the Bavli</aht></multilink>,
+
<multilink><a href="BavliChagigah4b" data-aht="source">Bavli Chagigah</a><a href="BavliChagigah4b" data-aht="source">Chagigah 4b</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>,
<multilink><aht source="VayikraRabbah26-7">Vayikra Rabbah</aht><aht source="VayikraRabbah26-7">26:7</aht><aht parshan="Vayikra Rabbah" /></multilink>,
+
<multilink><a href="VayikraRabbah26-7" data-aht="source">Vayikra Rabbah</a><a href="VayikraRabbah26-7" data-aht="source">26:7</a><a href="Vayikra Rabbah" data-aht="parshan">About Vayikra Rabbah</a></multilink>,
<multilink><aht source="TanchumaBuberEmor4">Tanchuma (Buber)</aht><aht source="TanchumaBuberEmor4">Emor 4</aht><aht parshan="Tanchuma">About Tanchuma (Buber)</aht></multilink>,
+
<multilink><a href="TanchumaBuberEmor4" data-aht="source">Tanchuma (Buber)</a><a href="TanchumaBuberEmor4" data-aht="source">Emor 4</a><a href="Tanchuma" data-aht="parshan">About Tanchuma (Buber)</a></multilink>,
<multilink><aht source="MalbimShemuelI28-12">Malbim</aht><aht source="MalbimShemuelI28-12">Shemuel I 28:12</aht><aht parshan="Malbim">About R. Meir Leibush Weiser</aht></multilink>
+
<multilink><a href="MalbimShemuelI28-12" data-aht="source">Malbim</a><a href="MalbimShemuelI28-12" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 28:12</a><a href="Malbim" data-aht="parshan">About R. Meir Leibush Weiser</a></multilink>
 
</mekorot>
 
</mekorot>
 
<point><b>Powers of Ba'alat HaOv</b> – Ba'alat HaOv has powers to bring people back to life but she can only see the person that was revived and the questioner can only hear him. See <a href="__">Chazal's general view of magic.</a></point>
 
<point><b>Powers of Ba'alat HaOv</b> – Ba'alat HaOv has powers to bring people back to life but she can only see the person that was revived and the questioner can only hear him. See <a href="__">Chazal's general view of magic.</a></point>
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<p>Only Hashem brought Shemuel back to life and not Ba'alat HaOv.</p>
 
<p>Only Hashem brought Shemuel back to life and not Ba'alat HaOv.</p>
 
<mekorot>
 
<mekorot>
<multilink><aht source="RadakShemuelI28-24">R. Saadia Gaon</aht><aht source="RadakShemuelI28-24">In Radak Shemuel I 28:24</aht><aht source="AbarbanelShemuelI28-11">In Abarbanel Shemuel I 28:11</aht><aht parshan="R. Saadia Gaon" /></multilink>,
+
<multilink><a href="RadakShemuelI28-24" data-aht="source">R. Saadia Gaon</a><a href="RadakShemuelI28-24" data-aht="source">In Radak Shemuel I 28:24</a><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI28-11" data-aht="source">In Abarbanel Shemuel I 28:11</a><a href="R. Saadia Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Saadia Gaon</a></multilink>,
<multilink><aht source="RadakShemuelI28-24">R. Hai Gaon</aht><aht source="RadakShemuelI28-24">In Radak Shemuel I 28:24</aht><aht source="AbarbanelShemuelI28-11">In Abarbanel Shemuel I 28:11</aht><aht parshan="R. Hai Gaon" /></multilink>
+
<multilink><a href="RadakShemuelI28-24" data-aht="source">R. Hai Gaon</a><a href="RadakShemuelI28-24" data-aht="source">In Radak Shemuel I 28:24</a><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI28-11" data-aht="source">In Abarbanel Shemuel I 28:11</a><a href="R. Hai Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Hai Gaon</a></multilink>
 
</mekorot>
 
</mekorot>
 
<point><b></b> – </point>
 
<point><b></b> – </point>
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<p></p>
 
<p></p>
 
<mekorot>
 
<mekorot>
<multilink><aht source="AbarbanelShemuelI28-11">Augustine</aht><aht source="AbarbanelShemuelI28-11">In Abarbanel Shemuel I 28:11</aht><aht parshan="Abarbanel">About R. Yitzchak Abarbanel</aht></multilink>,
+
<multilink><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI28-11" data-aht="source">Augustine</a><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI28-11" data-aht="source">In Abarbanel Shemuel I 28:11</a><a href="Abarbanel" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yitzchak Abarbanel</a></multilink>,
<multilink><aht source="AbarbanelShemuelI28-11">Abarbanel</aht><aht source="AbarbanelShemuelI28-11">Shemuel I 28:11</aht><aht parshan="Abarbanel">About R. Yitzchak Abarbanel</aht></multilink>
+
<multilink><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI28-11" data-aht="source">Abarbanel</a><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI28-11" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 28:11</a><a href="Abarbanel" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yitzchak Abarbanel</a></multilink>
 
</mekorot>
 
</mekorot>
 
<point><b>Powers of Ba'alat HaOv</b> – </point>
 
<point><b>Powers of Ba'alat HaOv</b> – </point>
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<p>It was all in Shaul's imagination that Shemuel came back to life and nothing happened in the real world.</p>
 
<p>It was all in Shaul's imagination that Shemuel came back to life and nothing happened in the real world.</p>
 
<mekorot>
 
<mekorot>
<multilink><aht source="RambamAvodahZarah6-1">Rambam</aht><aht source="RambamAvodahZarah6-1">Hilkhot Avodah Zarah 6:1-2</aht><aht parshan="Rambam">About R. Moshe Maimonides</aht></multilink>,
+
<multilink><a href="RambamAvodahZarah6-1" data-aht="source">Rambam</a><a href="RambamAvodahZarah6-1" data-aht="source">Hilkhot Avodah Zarah 6:1-2</a><a href="Rambam" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe Maimonides</a></multilink>,
<multilink><aht source="RalbagShemuelI28-8">Ralbag</aht><aht source="RalbagShemuelI28-8">Shemuel I 28:8</aht><aht source="RalbagShemuelI28-19">Shemuel I 28:19</aht><aht parshan="Ralbag">About R. Levi b. Gershon</aht></multilink>
+
<multilink><a href="RalbagShemuelI28-8" data-aht="source">Ralbag</a><a href="RalbagShemuelI28-8" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 28:8</a><a href="RalbagShemuelI28-19" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 28:19</a><a href="Ralbag" data-aht="parshan">About R. Levi b. Gershon</a></multilink>
 
</mekorot>
 
</mekorot>
 
<point><b>The story</b> – Shaul was just imagining that Shemuel was talking to him and thought that it was happening.</point>
 
<point><b>The story</b> – Shaul was just imagining that Shemuel was talking to him and thought that it was happening.</point>
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<p>Ba'alat HaOv pretended that she saw and heard Shemuel and really nothing happened.</p>
 
<p>Ba'alat HaOv pretended that she saw and heard Shemuel and really nothing happened.</p>
 
<mekorot>
 
<mekorot>
<multilink><aht source="RSBHG">R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon</aht><aht source="RSBHG">Ginzei Sechter 1 p. 299-300</aht><aht source="RadakShemuelI28-24">In Radak Shemuel I 28:24</aht><aht source="AbarbanelShemuelI28-11">In Abarbanel Shemuel I 28:11</aht><aht parshan="R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon" /></multilink>
+
<multilink><a href="RSBHG" data-aht="source">R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon</a><a href="RSBHG" data-aht="source">Ginzei Sechter 1 p. 299-300</a><a href="RadakShemuelI28-24" data-aht="source">In Radak Shemuel I 28:24</a><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI28-11" data-aht="source">In Abarbanel Shemuel I 28:11</a><a href="R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon</a></multilink>
 
</mekorot>
 
</mekorot>
<point><b>Shemuel speaking</b> – R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon says that the conversation was between Ba'alat HaOv and Shaul. When it says "וַיֹּאמֶר שְׁמוּאֵל" it means that Ba'alat HaOv said that Shemuel said. He notes that there are many cases in which the language of speaking is used when no one is speaking<fn>He brings the case in Shofetim 9:13 where the grapes speak.</fn>. Rasag disagrees with this interpretation.</point>
+
<point><b>Shemuel speaking</b> – R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon says that the conversation was between Ba'alat HaOv and Shaul. When it says "וַיֹּאמֶר שְׁמוּאֵל" it means that Ba'alat HaOv said that Shemuel said. He notes that there are many cases in which the language of speaking is used when no one is speaking<fn>He brings the case in Shofetim 9:13 where the grapes speak.</fn>. Rasag disagrees with this interpretation.</point>
<point><b>The prophecy</b> – Ba'alat HaOv guessed that Shaul will die soon because she knew that Hashem left him. In addition she guessed based on the forces of the Philistines that the Isralites will lose the coming battle.</point>
+
<point><b>The prophecy</b> – Ba'alat HaOv guessed that Shaul will die soon because she knew that Hashem left him. In addition she guessed based on the forces of the Philistines that the Isralites will lose the coming battle.</point>
<point><b>Knowing that it is Shemuel</b> – In addition R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon asks how can the verse say that Shaul "know" that it was Shemuel when it was not him? He explains that "וַיֵּדַע" means to believe.</point>
+
<point><b>Knowing that it is Shemuel</b> – In addition R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon asks how can the verse say that Shaul "know" that it was Shemuel when it was not him? He explains that "וַיֵּדַע" means to believe.</point>
<point><b>Knowing it was Shaul</b> – Ba'alat HaOv knew from the beginning that it was Shaul. She pretended that she knew it was Shaul because of the Ov to make Shaul believe that something was happening.</point>
+
<point><b>Knowing it was Shaul</b> – Ba'alat HaOv knew from the beginning that it was Shaul. She pretended that she knew it was Shaul because of the Ov to make Shaul believe that something was happening.</point>
<point><b>Shaul believing and falling down</b> – Abarbanel asks on this approach from the aftermath of the conversation. We hear that Shaul gets frightened from Shemuel's words. How can Shaul who was smart be misled to thinking that Ba'alat HaOv really saw Shemuel? Also, if Shaul did not see anything by himself why would he fall down with no energy left in him?</point>
+
<point><b>Shaul believing and falling down</b> – Abarbanel asks on this approach from the aftermath of the conversation. We hear that Shaul gets frightened from Shemuel's words. How can Shaul who was smart be misled to thinking that Ba'alat HaOv really saw Shemuel? Also, if Shaul did not see anything by himself why would he fall down with no energy left in him?</point>
 
</opinion>
 
</opinion>
 
</category>
 
</category>

Version as of 19:29, 11 August 2014

Did Shemuel Come Back to Life?

Exegetical Approaches

Overview

Shemuel Came Back to Life

Ba'alat HaOv Brought Shemuel Back to Life

Ba'alat HaOv had powers to bring Shemuel back to life.

Powers of Ba'alat HaOv – Ba'alat HaOv has powers to bring people back to life but she can only see the person that was revived and the questioner can only hear him. See Chazal's general view of magic.
Powers of evil
Can prophets be brought back to life – The Midrashim have no problem in saying this1. The Malbim on the other hand does not want to take the approach that magic can control on prophets. Instead he says that the holy spirit was not brought back to life.
Ba'alat HaOv knowing Shaul – Ba'alat HaOv knew that it was Shaul because when a king requests to revive someone the person comes out of the ground with their head first while for a regular person the legs come out first.
Until when did the Ov exist? – See the Malbim that people used the Ov even in the time of Chazal.
Shemuel speaking and prophesizing – Shemuel really spoke and prophesized to Shaul.

Hashem Brought Shemuel Back to Life

A Demon was Created

Powers of Ba'alat HaOv
The Demon
Usages of the Ov in Tanakh
Shemuel speaking
Shemuel's prophecy

No One Came Back to Life

Shaul Imagined That Shemuel Came Back to Life

It was all in Shaul's imagination that Shemuel came back to life and nothing happened in the real world.

The story – Shaul was just imagining that Shemuel was talking to him and thought that it was happening.
Shaul imagining a prophecy – According to the approach one has to explain how did Shaul imagine something in the future? Ralbag explains that Shaul had some prophetic power that told him he will die. In addition Shaul knew that Hashem left him and was thinking of his death so it is not hard to say that he imagined Shemuel telling him about his death.
Prophecy
Powers of evil
Why by Ba'alat HaOv – Abarbanel asks why did Shaul need to go to Ba'alat HaOv to imagine what will happen. Ralbag says that Ba'alat HaOv told the Shaul the look of Shemuel which helped him start imagining that Shemuel was speaking.
Shaul believing in his imagination – Abarbanel questions that Shaul would differentiate between his imagination and what is really happening and saying this would make Shaul into a sickly person.
Ba'alat HaOv knowing Shaul – Ba'alat HaOv guessed that the only person asking for Shemuel would have been Shaul.

Ba'alat HaOv Lied That Shemuel Came Back to Life

Ba'alat HaOv pretended that she saw and heard Shemuel and really nothing happened.

Shemuel speaking – R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon says that the conversation was between Ba'alat HaOv and Shaul. When it says "וַיֹּאמֶר שְׁמוּאֵל" it means that Ba'alat HaOv said that Shemuel said. He notes that there are many cases in which the language of speaking is used when no one is speaking2. Rasag disagrees with this interpretation.
The prophecy – Ba'alat HaOv guessed that Shaul will die soon because she knew that Hashem left him. In addition she guessed based on the forces of the Philistines that the Isralites will lose the coming battle.
Knowing that it is Shemuel – In addition R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon asks how can the verse say that Shaul "know" that it was Shemuel when it was not him? He explains that "וַיֵּדַע" means to believe.
Knowing it was Shaul – Ba'alat HaOv knew from the beginning that it was Shaul. She pretended that she knew it was Shaul because of the Ov to make Shaul believe that something was happening.
Shaul believing and falling down – Abarbanel asks on this approach from the aftermath of the conversation. We hear that Shaul gets frightened from Shemuel's words. How can Shaul who was smart be misled to thinking that Ba'alat HaOv really saw Shemuel? Also, if Shaul did not see anything by himself why would he fall down with no energy left in him?