Difference between revisions of "Philosophy:Collective Punishment/1/en"

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<page type="Introduction">
 
<h1>Collective Punishment</h1>
 
<h1>Collective Punishment</h1>
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<div><b><center><span class="highlighted-notice">This topic has not yet undergone editorial review</span></center></b></div>
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<h2>Questioning Hashem's Justice</h2>
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<p>Twice in Torah leaders turn to Hashem to question his justice in punishing the innocent.&#160; After being told of the impending destruction of <a href="Bereshit18-16-33" data-aht="source">Sedom</a>, Avraham cries out to Hashem, "הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע", will you kill the righteous together with the wicked? Similarly, during the rebellion of <a href="Bemidbar16-20-26" data-aht="source">Korach</a>, when Hashem tells Moshe to separate from the congregation, "and I will wipe them out",&#160; Moshe responds by asking, "הָאִישׁ אֶחָד יֶחֱטָא וְעַל כׇּל הָעֵדָה תִּקְצֹף"?</p>
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<p>Both Avraham and Moshe seem to be bothered by the possibility that Hashem might collectively punish the innocent together with the guilty.&#160; It is not clear from either story, though, if this is what Hashem was really intending, nor if He changed His mind in the end.&#160; Does Hashem agree that collective punishment is wrong or is it part of His mode of justice?</p>
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<p>The above cases are by no means the only stories in Tanakh in which there seems to be collective punishment. From the flood in the time of Noach to the present day exile it seems that innocents often suffer with the wicked. </p>
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<li><b>Divine punishments of Israel</b> – After a part of the nation sins, Hashem often seems to mete out general, undiscriminating punishments. Thus, after the&#160;<a href="Bemidbar14-26-37" data-aht="source">spies' report</a> everyone aged twenty and up is decreed to die in the wilderness, apparently regardless of whether&#160; they individually joined in the murmurings.</li>
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<li><b>Divine punishment of Gentiles</b> – Hashem seems to do the same for non Jewish nations, as evidenced by the killing all of the&#160;<a href="Shemot12-29-30" data-aht="source">first borns</a> in Egypt<fn>The decree extended even to children of prisoners who were very unlikely to have had slaves of their own.</fn> even though Paroh,and not they, was the one who decreed slavery.</li>
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<li><b>Punishment via nature</b> – Sometimes, Hashem punishes the people by bringing some sort of natural catastrophe such as the famine in the time of David, or plague after the&#160;&#160; Sins of the <a href="Shemot32-27-35" data-aht="source">Golden Calf</a> and Baal Peor.&#160; In such cases, unless Hashem miraculously ensures that there is a distinction between innocent and guilty, it would seem inevitable that some righteous people suffer as well?</li>
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<li><b>Divine commands to punish</b> – At times, rather than punishing by himself, Hashem commands the nation to enact collective punishments on others, such as the decree to annihilate&#160;<a href="Devarim25-17-19" data-aht="source">Amalek</a> or the <a href="Devarim20-10-18" data-aht="source">Seven Nations</a>.&#160; Similarly, Hashem dictates the court to annihilate all members of a <a href="Devarim13-13-19" data-aht="source">city of idolaters</a> (עיר נדחת).</li>
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<li>Vicarious Punishment</li>
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<li>Human</li>
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<p>&#160;</p>
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<li>The Flood - Was everyone in the entire world, excepting Noach, really so evil that they deserved death?&#160; What about the animals and plants?</li>
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<li>Plague after the Sin of the Golden Calf - The Levites&#160; are tasked with punishing those who worshiped the calf, yet afterwards Hashem brings further plague on the nation. Were all those punished by the Divine hand equally guilty?</li>
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<li>Decree of Forty Years - After the spies's report, those aged twenty and up are punished to die in the wilderness.&#160; Were there not at least a few people who did not join in the murmurings?</li>
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<p>.</p>
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Version as of 05:12, 31 July 2015

Collective Punishment

Introduction

This topic has not yet undergone editorial review

Questioning Hashem's Justice

Twice in Torah leaders turn to Hashem to question his justice in punishing the innocent.  After being told of the impending destruction of Sedom, Avraham cries out to Hashem, "הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע", will you kill the righteous together with the wicked? Similarly, during the rebellion of Korach, when Hashem tells Moshe to separate from the congregation, "and I will wipe them out",  Moshe responds by asking, "הָאִישׁ אֶחָד יֶחֱטָא וְעַל כׇּל הָעֵדָה תִּקְצֹף"?

Both Avraham and Moshe seem to be bothered by the possibility that Hashem might collectively punish the innocent together with the guilty.  It is not clear from either story, though, if this is what Hashem was really intending, nor if He changed His mind in the end.  Does Hashem agree that collective punishment is wrong or is it part of His mode of justice?

The above cases are by no means the only stories in Tanakh in which there seems to be collective punishment. From the flood in the time of Noach to the present day exile it seems that innocents often suffer with the wicked.

  • Divine punishments of Israel – After a part of the nation sins, Hashem often seems to mete out general, undiscriminating punishments. Thus, after the spies' report everyone aged twenty and up is decreed to die in the wilderness, apparently regardless of whether  they individually joined in the murmurings.
  • Divine punishment of Gentiles – Hashem seems to do the same for non Jewish nations, as evidenced by the killing all of the first borns in Egypt1 even though Paroh,and not they, was the one who decreed slavery.
  • Punishment via nature – Sometimes, Hashem punishes the people by bringing some sort of natural catastrophe such as the famine in the time of David, or plague after the   Sins of the Golden Calf and Baal Peor.  In such cases, unless Hashem miraculously ensures that there is a distinction between innocent and guilty, it would seem inevitable that some righteous people suffer as well?
  • Divine commands to punish – At times, rather than punishing by himself, Hashem commands the nation to enact collective punishments on others, such as the decree to annihilate Amalek or the Seven Nations.  Similarly, Hashem dictates the court to annihilate all members of a city of idolaters (עיר נדחת).
  • Vicarious Punishment
  • Human

 

  • The Flood - Was everyone in the entire world, excepting Noach, really so evil that they deserved death?  What about the animals and plants?
  • Plague after the Sin of the Golden Calf - The Levites  are tasked with punishing those who worshiped the calf, yet afterwards Hashem brings further plague on the nation. Were all those punished by the Divine hand equally guilty?
  • Decree of Forty Years - After the spies's report, those aged twenty and up are punished to die in the wilderness.  Were there not at least a few people who did not join in the murmurings?

.