Difference between revisions of "Philosophy:Theodicy – צדיק ורע לו/2"

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<category>Mistaken Status of Person
 
<category>Mistaken Status of Person
<p>This approach understands that just because a man might seem to be righteous or wicked he might not always be so, and Hashem is paying him his true doe.</p>
+
<p>This approach understands that just because a man might seem to be righteous or wicked he might not always be so, and Hashem is paying him his true due.</p>
 
<mekorot><multilink><a href="BavliTaanit11a" data-aht="source">Bavli Taanit</a><a href="BavliTaanit11a" data-aht="source">Taanit 11a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>,<fn>It is unclear from the Bavli if they hold the person was not really righteous or wicked and rather had what to be rewarded or punished for, or that the real retribution would be in the world to come.</fn> opinion in&#160;<multilink><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">R. Saadia Gaon</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">HaEmunot VeHaDeiot 5:3</a><a href="R. Saadia Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Saadia Gaon</a></multilink>,</mekorot>
 
<mekorot><multilink><a href="BavliTaanit11a" data-aht="source">Bavli Taanit</a><a href="BavliTaanit11a" data-aht="source">Taanit 11a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>,<fn>It is unclear from the Bavli if they hold the person was not really righteous or wicked and rather had what to be rewarded or punished for, or that the real retribution would be in the world to come.</fn> opinion in&#160;<multilink><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">R. Saadia Gaon</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">HaEmunot VeHaDeiot 5:3</a><a href="R. Saadia Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Saadia Gaon</a></multilink>,</mekorot>
<point><b>צדיק ורע לו, רשע וטוב לו</b> – This approach claims that almost all humans are neither perfect nor terrible, rather everyone is somewhere in the middle.&#160; Therefore the punishments the righteous person receives are actually punishing him for the few sins he committed, even if the majority of his actions were right.&#160; Similarly, a wicked man might be rewarded for his few good deeds that he performed, or because of the possibility he will repent and become worthy of the reward.</point>
+
<point><b>Moral justification</b> – This approach claims that almost all humans are neither perfect nor terrible, rather everyone is somewhere in the middle. Therefore the punishments the righteous person receives are punishing him for the few sins he did commit, even if the majority of his actions were right. And similarly, a wicked man might be rewarded for his few good deeds that he performed.</point>
 +
<point><b>רשע וטוב לו</b><ul>
 +
<li>The wicked man also did some good deeds in his life, for which he is being rewarded.</li>
 +
<li>Hashem is rewarding the wicked man, because there is always a possibility that he will repent, and then be worthy of the reward – R. Bachye.</li>
 +
</ul></point>
 
<point><b>Afflictions of love</b></point>
 
<point><b>Afflictions of love</b></point>
 
<point><b>Iyyov</b> – The story of Iyyov seems to contradict this approach, since we don't hear from the book that Iyyov committed any sins.</point>
 
<point><b>Iyyov</b> – The story of Iyyov seems to contradict this approach, since we don't hear from the book that Iyyov committed any sins.</point>
 
<point><b>"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"</b></point>
 
<point><b>"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"</b></point>
 +
<point><b>Exact compensation?</b> This approach does not account for the difficulty where a man might have committed just one small sin, and seems to be punished for far more than that.</point>
 +
<point><b>How does justice work?</b> These sources render, that justice works the way Torah describes it, every man is punished for all his sins and rewarded for all his positive deeds.</point>
 +
<point><b>Collective punishment</b> – This approach believes that every man is punished for his own sins.&#160; The fact one person might have done something wrong does not require anyone else besides for himself to be punished.</point>
 +
<point><b>Hashem's providence</b> – This approach maintains that Hashem provides for every individual, and not just on a national level.</point>
 +
<point><b>World to come</b></point>
 
</category>
 
</category>
 
<category>Misperception of Retribution
 
<category>Misperception of Retribution
 +
<p>The retribution people are receiving is part of a wider picture where they are punished as they deserve.</p>
 
<mekorot><multilink><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">Sifre Devarim</a><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">11:26</a><a href="Sifre Devarim" data-aht="parshan">About Sifre Devarim</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Yerushalmi</a><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Chagigah 2:1</a><a href="Talmud Yerushalmi" data-aht="parshan">About the Yerushalmi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Bavli Shabbat</a><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Shabbat 30b</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BavliChulin142a" data-aht="source">Bavli Chulin</a><a href="BavliChulin142a" data-aht="source">Chulin 142a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, opinion in <multilink><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">R. Saadia Gaon</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">HaEmunot VeHaDeiot 5:3</a><a href="R. Saadia Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Saadia Gaon</a></multilink>,</mekorot>
 
<mekorot><multilink><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">Sifre Devarim</a><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">11:26</a><a href="Sifre Devarim" data-aht="parshan">About Sifre Devarim</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Yerushalmi</a><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Chagigah 2:1</a><a href="Talmud Yerushalmi" data-aht="parshan">About the Yerushalmi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Bavli Shabbat</a><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Shabbat 30b</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BavliChulin142a" data-aht="source">Bavli Chulin</a><a href="BavliChulin142a" data-aht="source">Chulin 142a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, opinion in <multilink><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">R. Saadia Gaon</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">HaEmunot VeHaDeiot 5:3</a><a href="R. Saadia Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Saadia Gaon</a></multilink>,</mekorot>
 
<point><b>צדיק ורע לו, רשע וטוב לו</b> – The bad events which occur to the righteous man are not intended as a punishment, rather as a test in order to give them an abundance of good in the future or in the world to come.&#160; So too, the wicked man is not being rewarded, rather Hashem is strengthening the power of the punishment by giving him good first.</point>
 
<point><b>צדיק ורע לו, רשע וטוב לו</b> – The bad events which occur to the righteous man are not intended as a punishment, rather as a test in order to give them an abundance of good in the future or in the world to come.&#160; So too, the wicked man is not being rewarded, rather Hashem is strengthening the power of the punishment by giving him good first.</point>
 +
<point><b>World to come</b> – Most of these sources justify Hashem's ways by saying that the real retribution is in the world to come. However, the whole idea of the world to come is not explicated in the Torah at all.</point>
 +
<point><b>Moral justification</b></point>
 +
<point><b>"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"</b></point>
 +
<point><b>Hashem's providence</b></point>
 +
<point><b>Iyyov</b></point>
 
</category>
 
</category>
 
<category>Not Aimed at the Doer
 
<category>Not Aimed at the Doer
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<point><b>Hashem's providence</b></point>
 
<point><b>Hashem's providence</b></point>
 
<point><b>Purposes of the Egyptian bondage</b></point>
 
<point><b>Purposes of the Egyptian bondage</b></point>
 +
<point><b>"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"</b></point>
 +
<point><b>Iyyov</b></point>
 +
<point><b>World to come</b></point>
 
</category>
 
</category>
 
</approaches>
 
</approaches>
 
</page>
 
</page>
 
</aht-xml>
 
</aht-xml>

Version as of 05:15, 30 May 2017

Theodicy – צדיק ורע לו

Exegetical Approaches

This topic has not yet undergone editorial review

Mistaken Status of Person

This approach understands that just because a man might seem to be righteous or wicked he might not always be so, and Hashem is paying him his true due.

Moral justification – This approach claims that almost all humans are neither perfect nor terrible, rather everyone is somewhere in the middle. Therefore the punishments the righteous person receives are punishing him for the few sins he did commit, even if the majority of his actions were right. And similarly, a wicked man might be rewarded for his few good deeds that he performed.
רשע וטוב לו
  • The wicked man also did some good deeds in his life, for which he is being rewarded.
  • Hashem is rewarding the wicked man, because there is always a possibility that he will repent, and then be worthy of the reward – R. Bachye.
Afflictions of love
Iyyov – The story of Iyyov seems to contradict this approach, since we don't hear from the book that Iyyov committed any sins.
"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"
Exact compensation? This approach does not account for the difficulty where a man might have committed just one small sin, and seems to be punished for far more than that.
How does justice work? These sources render, that justice works the way Torah describes it, every man is punished for all his sins and rewarded for all his positive deeds.
Collective punishment – This approach believes that every man is punished for his own sins.  The fact one person might have done something wrong does not require anyone else besides for himself to be punished.
Hashem's providence – This approach maintains that Hashem provides for every individual, and not just on a national level.
World to come

Misperception of Retribution

The retribution people are receiving is part of a wider picture where they are punished as they deserve.

צדיק ורע לו, רשע וטוב לו – The bad events which occur to the righteous man are not intended as a punishment, rather as a test in order to give them an abundance of good in the future or in the world to come.  So too, the wicked man is not being rewarded, rather Hashem is strengthening the power of the punishment by giving him good first.
World to come – Most of these sources justify Hashem's ways by saying that the real retribution is in the world to come. However, the whole idea of the world to come is not explicated in the Torah at all.
Moral justification
"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"
Hashem's providence
Iyyov

Not Aimed at the Doer

The righteous or wicked man is really not worthy of the retribution they received.

צדיק ורע לו, רשע וטוב לו – The righteous man is being punished over the sins of his generation, or of his ancestors, though not his own sins.  And the wicked man being part of a nation who is worthy of good, receives good as well, even though he does not deserve it.
Hashem's providence
Purposes of the Egyptian bondage
"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"
Iyyov
World to come