Difference between revisions of "Philosophy:Theodicy – צדיק ורע לו/2"

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<category>Mistaken Status of Person
 
<category>Mistaken Status of Person
 
<p>This approach understands that just because a man might seem to be righteous or wicked he might not always actually be so, and Hashem is really paying him his true due.</p>
 
<p>This approach understands that just because a man might seem to be righteous or wicked he might not always actually be so, and Hashem is really paying him his true due.</p>
<mekorot><multilink><a href="BavliTaanit11a" data-aht="source">Bavli Taanit</a><a href="BavliTaanit11a" data-aht="source">Taanit 11a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>,<fn>It is unclear from the Bavli if they hold the person was not really righteous or wicked and rather had what to be rewarded or punished for, or that the real retribution would be in the world to come.</fn> first opinion in&#160;<multilink><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">R. Saadia Gaon</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">HaEmunot VeHaDeiot 5:3</a><a href="R. Saadia Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Saadia Gaon</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RambanToratHaAdamShaarHaGemul" data-aht="source">Ramban</a><a href="RambanToratHaAdamShaarHaGemul" data-aht="source">Torat HaAdam Shaar HaGemul</a><a href="R. Moshe b. Nachman (Ramban, Nachmanides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe b. Nachman</a></multilink>,</mekorot>
+
<mekorot><multilink><a href="BavliTaanit11a" data-aht="source">Bavli Taanit</a><a href="BavliTaanit11a" data-aht="source">Taanit 11a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>,<fn>It is unclear from the Bavli if they hold the person was not really righteous or wicked and rather had what to be rewarded or punished for, or that the real retribution would be in the world to come.</fn> first opinion in&#160;<multilink><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">R. Saadia Gaon</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">HaEmunot VeHaDeiot 5:3</a><a href="R. Saadia Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Saadia Gaon</a></multilink>, first opinion in <multilink><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">Chovot HaLevavot</a><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">4:3</a><a href="Chovot HaLevavot" data-aht="parshan">About R. Bachya ibn Pakuda</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RambanToratHaAdamShaarHaGemul" data-aht="source">Ramban</a><a href="RambanToratHaAdamShaarHaGemul" data-aht="source">Torat HaAdam Shaar HaGemul</a><a href="R. Moshe b. Nachman (Ramban, Nachmanides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe b. Nachman</a></multilink>,</mekorot>
 
<point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b><ul>
 
<point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b><ul>
<li>The righteous person is not truly innocent, and Hashem is punishing him for the few sins that he committed, even if the majority of his actions were right.</li>
+
<li>The righteous person is not truly innocent,<fn>R. Bachya suggests that there sin could be on not convincing their generation to repent, even if they themselves did not commit any sins.</fn> and Hashem is punishing him for the few sins that he committed, even if the majority of his actions were right.</li>
 
</ul></point>
 
</ul></point>
 
<point><b>רשע וטוב לו</b><ul>
 
<point><b>רשע וטוב לו</b><ul>
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</category>
 
</category>
 
<category>Misperception of Retribution
 
<category>Misperception of Retribution
<p>The retribution people are receiving is part of a wider picture where they are punished and rewarded as they deserve.</p>
+
<p>The retribution people are receiving is part of a wider picture where they are punished and rewarded as they deserve.&#160; Hashem ensures this by punishing and rewarding people in the world to come.</p>
<mekorot><multilink><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">Sifre Devarim</a><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">11:26</a><a href="Sifre Devarim" data-aht="parshan">About Sifre Devarim</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Yerushalmi</a><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Chagigah 2:1</a><a href="Talmud Yerushalmi" data-aht="parshan">About the Yerushalmi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Bavli Shabbat</a><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Shabbat 30b</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BavliChulin142a" data-aht="source">Bavli Chulin</a><a href="BavliChulin142a" data-aht="source">Chulin 142a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, second opinion in <multilink><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">R. Saadia Gaon</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">HaEmunot VeHaDeiot 5:3</a><a href="R. Saadia Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Saadia Gaon</a></multilink>, first opinion in <multilink><a href="RBachyeibnPakudaChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">R. Bachya ibn Pakuda</a><a href="RBachyeibnPakudaChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">Chovot HaLevavot 4:3</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RChasdaiCrescasאורהג-א-ח-ב" data-aht="source">R. Chasdai Crescas</a><a href="RChasdaiCrescasאורהג-א-ח-ב" data-aht="source">Or Hashem 3:1:8:2</a><a href="R. Chasdai Crescas" data-aht="parshan">About R. Chasdai Crescas</a></multilink>,</mekorot>
+
<mekorot><multilink><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">Sifre Devarim</a><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">11:26</a><a href="Sifre Devarim" data-aht="parshan">About Sifre Devarim</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Yerushalmi</a><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Chagigah 2:1</a><a href="Talmud Yerushalmi" data-aht="parshan">About the Yerushalmi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Bavli Shabbat</a><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Shabbat 30b</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BavliChulin142a" data-aht="source">Bavli Chulin</a><a href="BavliChulin142a" data-aht="source">Chulin 142a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, second opinion in <multilink><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">R. Saadia Gaon</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">HaEmunot VeHaDeiot 5:3</a><a href="R. Saadia Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Saadia Gaon</a></multilink>, second opinion in <multilink><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">Chovot HaLevavot</a><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">4:3</a><a href="Chovot HaLevavot" data-aht="parshan">About R. Bachya ibn Pakuda</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RChasdaiCrescasאורהג-א-ח-ב" data-aht="source">R. Chasdai Crescas</a><a href="RChasdaiCrescasאורהג-א-ח-ב" data-aht="source">Or Hashem 3:1:8:2</a><a href="R. Chasdai Crescas" data-aht="parshan">About R. Chasdai Crescas</a></multilink>,</mekorot>
 
<point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b><ul>
 
<point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b><ul>
 
<li>The bad events which occur to the righteous man are not intended as a punishment, rather as a test.&#160; Hashem knows they will tolerate the punishments even though they don't deserve them, and as a result, He gives them an abundance of good in the future or in the world to come.</li>
 
<li>The bad events which occur to the righteous man are not intended as a punishment, rather as a test.&#160; Hashem knows they will tolerate the punishments even though they don't deserve them, and as a result, He gives them an abundance of good in the future or in the world to come.</li>
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<li>In some cases, the good is a cause for bad, and the whole purpose really is the punishment.</li>
 
<li>In some cases, the good is a cause for bad, and the whole purpose really is the punishment.</li>
 
</ul></point>
 
</ul></point>
<point><b>Moral justification</b> – Hashem ensures that at the end of a person's life, or in the world to come, they will have received what they deserve, and the seemingly wrong compensation is just to ensure the strength of the real end of day compensation.</point>
+
<point><b>Moral justification</b> – Hashem ensures that at the end of a person's life, or in the world to come, they will have received what they deserve.<br/>
 +
<ul>
 +
<li>The seemingly wrong compensation is just to ensure the strength of the real end of day compensation.</li>
 +
<li>To publicize the commitment of the righteous man to Hashem even with all the troubles he goes through.</li>
 +
</ul></point>
 
<point><b>World to come</b> – Most of these sources justify Hashem's ways by saying that the real retribution is in the world to come. However, the whole idea of the world to come is not explicated in the Torah at all.<fn>R. Chasdai Crescas accounts for this question by saying that the nation coming out of Eygpt knew about the world to come and there was no reason to explicate it.</fn></point>
 
<point><b>World to come</b> – Most of these sources justify Hashem's ways by saying that the real retribution is in the world to come. However, the whole idea of the world to come is not explicated in the Torah at all.<fn>R. Chasdai Crescas accounts for this question by saying that the nation coming out of Eygpt knew about the world to come and there was no reason to explicate it.</fn></point>
 
<point><b>"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"</b></point>
 
<point><b>"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"</b></point>
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<category>Not Aimed at the Doer
 
<category>Not Aimed at the Doer
 
<p>The righteous or wicked man is really not worthy of the retribution they received.&#160; However, they are receiving it because they have responsibility over</p>
 
<p>The righteous or wicked man is really not worthy of the retribution they received.&#160; However, they are receiving it because they have responsibility over</p>
<mekorot><multilink><a href="BavliBerakhot7a" data-aht="source">Bavli Berakhot</a><a href="BavliBerakhot7a" data-aht="source">Berakhot 7a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RYosefAlboSeferHaIkkarim4-7" data-aht="source">R. Yosef Albo</a><a href="RYosefAlboSeferHaIkkarim4-7" data-aht="source">Sefer HaIkkarim 4:7</a><a href="RYosefAlboSeferHaIkkarim4-12-13" data-aht="source">Sefer HaIkkarim 4:12-13</a><a href="Sefer HaIkkarim" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yosef Albo</a></multilink>, second opinion in <multilink><a href="RBachyeibnPakudaChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">R. Bachye ibn Pakuda</a><a href="RBachyeibnPakudaChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">Chovot HaLevavot 4:3</a></multilink>,</mekorot>
+
<mekorot><multilink><a href="BavliBerakhot7a" data-aht="source">Bavli Berakhot</a><a href="BavliBerakhot7a" data-aht="source">Berakhot 7a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, third opinion in&#160;<multilink><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">Chovot HaLevavot</a><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">4:3</a><a href="Chovot HaLevavot" data-aht="parshan">About R. Bachya ibn Pakuda</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RYosefAlboSeferHaIkkarim4-7" data-aht="source">R. Yosef Albo</a><a href="RYosefAlboSeferHaIkkarim4-7" data-aht="source">Sefer HaIkkarim 4:7</a><a href="RYosefAlboSeferHaIkkarim4-12-13" data-aht="source">Sefer HaIkkarim 4:12-13</a><a href="Sefer HaIkkarim" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yosef Albo</a></multilink>,</mekorot>
 
<point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b> – The righteous man is being punished over the sins of his generation, or of his ancestors, and not his own sins.</point>
 
<point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b> – The righteous man is being punished over the sins of his generation, or of his ancestors, and not his own sins.</point>
 
<point><b>רשע וטוב לו</b> – The wicked man being part of a nation who is worthy of good, receives good as well, even though he does not deserve it.</point>
 
<point><b>רשע וטוב לו</b> – The wicked man being part of a nation who is worthy of good, receives good as well, even though he does not deserve it.</point>

Version as of 02:48, 2 July 2017

Theodicy – צדיק ורע לו

Exegetical Approaches

This topic has not yet undergone editorial review

Mistaken Status of Person

This approach understands that just because a man might seem to be righteous or wicked he might not always actually be so, and Hashem is really paying him his true due.

צדיק ורע לו
  • The righteous person is not truly innocent,2 and Hashem is punishing him for the few sins that he committed, even if the majority of his actions were right.
רשע וטוב לו
  • The wicked man also performed some good deeds in his life, for which he is being rewarded.
  • Hashem is rewarding the wicked man, because there is always a possibility that he will repent, and then be worthy of the reward – R. Bachye.
Moral justification – This approach claims that almost all humans are neither perfect nor terrible, rather everyone is somewhere in the middle, and that is how one can have a seemingly pious person who is being punished and the opposite as well.  However, this approach does not account for the many cases where the compensation does not seem exact, and a man who might have committed just one small sin, seems to be punished for far more than that.
Afflictions of love
Iyyov – The story of Iyyov seems to contradict this approach, since we don't hear from the book that Iyyov committed any sins.
"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"
How does justice work? These sources render, that justice works the way Torah describes it, every man is punished for all his sins and rewarded for all his positive deeds.
Collective punishment – This approach believes that every man is punished for his own sins.  The fact one person might have done something wrong does not require anyone else besides for himself to be punished.
Hashem's providence – This approach maintains that Hashem provides for every individual, and not just on a national level.
World to come
Contradicting verses – Ramban explains that the prophets were not questioning whether Hashem was acting justly, rather it was a way of complaining about their fate.

Misperception of Retribution

The retribution people are receiving is part of a wider picture where they are punished and rewarded as they deserve.  Hashem ensures this by punishing and rewarding people in the world to come.

צדיק ורע לו
  • The bad events which occur to the righteous man are not intended as a punishment, rather as a test.  Hashem knows they will tolerate the punishments even though they don't deserve them, and as a result, He gives them an abundance of good in the future or in the world to come.
רשע וטוב לו
  • Sometimes Hashem keeps the wicked person alive in order for them to witness an even worse punishment than they would have witnessed.
  • In some cases, the good is a cause for bad, and the whole purpose really is the punishment.
Moral justification – Hashem ensures that at the end of a person's life, or in the world to come, they will have received what they deserve.
  • The seemingly wrong compensation is just to ensure the strength of the real end of day compensation.
  • To publicize the commitment of the righteous man to Hashem even with all the troubles he goes through.
World to come – Most of these sources justify Hashem's ways by saying that the real retribution is in the world to come. However, the whole idea of the world to come is not explicated in the Torah at all.3
"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"
Hashem's providence
Iyyov
Good and evil – According to this approach, not all good and evil in life is necessarily a punishment or a reward.
Afflictions of love

Not Aimed at the Doer

The righteous or wicked man is really not worthy of the retribution they received.  However, they are receiving it because they have responsibility over

צדיק ורע לו – The righteous man is being punished over the sins of his generation, or of his ancestors, and not his own sins.
רשע וטוב לו – The wicked man being part of a nation who is worthy of good, receives good as well, even though he does not deserve it.
Moral justification
Hashem's providence – According to this approach, Hashem provides only or at least generally on a national level, and not for each individual person.
Purposes of the Egyptian bondage – This approach can understand the Egyptian bondage to be a punishment for the sins of previous generations.
"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"
Iyyov
World to come