Difference between revisions of "Philosophy:Theodicy – צדיק ורע לו/2"
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
This topic has not yet undergone editorial review
Line 29: | Line 29: | ||
<category>Misperception of Retribution | <category>Misperception of Retribution | ||
<p>The retribution people are receiving is part of a wider picture where they are punished and rewarded as they deserve.  Hashem ensures this by punishing and rewarding people in the world to come.</p> | <p>The retribution people are receiving is part of a wider picture where they are punished and rewarded as they deserve.  Hashem ensures this by punishing and rewarding people in the world to come.</p> | ||
− | <mekorot><multilink><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">Sifre Devarim</a><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">11:26</a><a href="Sifre Devarim" data-aht="parshan">About Sifre Devarim</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Yerushalmi</a><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Chagigah 2:1</a><a href="Talmud Yerushalmi" data-aht="parshan">About the Yerushalmi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Bavli Shabbat</a><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Shabbat 30b</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BavliChulin142a" data-aht="source">Bavli Chulin</a><a href="BavliChulin142a" data-aht="source">Chulin 142a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, second opinion in <multilink><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">R. Saadia Gaon</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">HaEmunot VeHaDeiot 5:3</a><a href="R. Saadia Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Saadia Gaon</a></multilink>, second opinion in <multilink><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">Chovot HaLevavot</a><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">4:3</a><a href="Chovot HaLevavot" data-aht="parshan">About R. Bachya ibn Pakuda</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="Kuzari3-19" data-aht="source">Kuzari</a><a href="Kuzari3-19" data-aht="source">3:19</a><a href="Kuzari6-1" data-aht="source">6:1</a><a href="R. Yehuda HaLevi" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yehuda HaLevi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="DerashotHaRan8" data-aht="source">Ran</a><a href="DerashotHaRan8" data-aht="source">Derashot HaRan 8</a><a href="R. Nissim Gerondi (Ran)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Nissim Gerondi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RChasdaiCrescasאורהג-א-ח-ב" data-aht="source">R. Chasdai Crescas</a><a href="RChasdaiCrescasאורהג-א-ח-ב" data-aht="source">Or Hashem 3:1:8:2</a><a href="R. Chasdai Crescas" data-aht="parshan">About R. Chasdai Crescas</a></multilink>,</mekorot> | + | <mekorot><multilink><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">Sifre Devarim</a><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">11:26</a><a href="Sifre Devarim" data-aht="parshan">About Sifre Devarim</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Yerushalmi</a><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Chagigah 2:1</a><a href="Talmud Yerushalmi" data-aht="parshan">About the Yerushalmi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Bavli Shabbat</a><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Shabbat 30b</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BavliChulin142a" data-aht="source">Bavli Chulin</a><a href="BavliChulin142a" data-aht="source">Chulin 142a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, second opinion in <multilink><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">R. Saadia Gaon</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-3" data-aht="source">HaEmunot VeHaDeiot 5:3</a><a href="R. Saadia Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Saadia Gaon</a></multilink>, second opinion in <multilink><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">Chovot HaLevavot</a><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">4:3</a><a href="Chovot HaLevavot" data-aht="parshan">About R. Bachya ibn Pakuda</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="Kuzari3-19" data-aht="source">Kuzari</a><a href="Kuzari3-19" data-aht="source">3:19</a><a href="Kuzari6-1" data-aht="source">6:1</a><a href="R. Yehuda HaLevi" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yehuda HaLevi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="DerashotHaRan8" data-aht="source">Ran</a><a href="DerashotHaRan8" data-aht="source">Derashot HaRan 8</a><a href="R. Nissim Gerondi (Ran)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Nissim Gerondi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RChasdaiCrescasאורהג-א-ח-ב" data-aht="source">R. Chasdai Crescas</a><a href="RChasdaiCrescasאורהג-א-ח-ב" data-aht="source">Or Hashem 3:1:8:2</a><a href="R. Chasdai Crescas" data-aht="parshan">About R. Chasdai Crescas</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="AbarbanelDevarim4-15-24" data-aht="source">Abarbanel</a><a href="AbarbanelDevarim4-15-24" data-aht="source">Devarim 4:15-24</a><a href="AbarbanelDevarim32-1" data-aht="source">Devarim 32:1</a><a href="R. Yitzchak Abarbanel" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yitzchak Abarbanel</a></multilink></mekorot> |
<point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b><ul> | <point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b><ul> | ||
<li>The bad events which occur to the righteous man are not intended as a punishment, rather as a test.  Hashem knows they will tolerate the punishments even though they don't deserve them, and as a result, He gives them an abundance of good in the future or in the world to come.</li> | <li>The bad events which occur to the righteous man are not intended as a punishment, rather as a test.  Hashem knows they will tolerate the punishments even though they don't deserve them, and as a result, He gives them an abundance of good in the future or in the world to come.</li> | ||
Line 51: | Line 51: | ||
</category> | </category> | ||
<category>Not Aimed at the Doer | <category>Not Aimed at the Doer | ||
− | <p>The righteous or wicked man is really not worthy of the retribution they received.  However, they are receiving it because they have responsibility over</p> | + | <p>The righteous or wicked man is really not worthy of the retribution they received.  However, they are receiving it because they have responsibility over their nation.</p> |
<mekorot><multilink><a href="BavliBerakhot7a" data-aht="source">Bavli Berakhot</a><a href="BavliBerakhot7a" data-aht="source">Berakhot 7a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, third opinion in <multilink><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">Chovot HaLevavot</a><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">4:3</a><a href="Chovot HaLevavot" data-aht="parshan">About R. Bachya ibn Pakuda</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RYosefAlboSeferHaIkkarim4-7" data-aht="source">R. Yosef Albo</a><a href="RYosefAlboSeferHaIkkarim4-7" data-aht="source">Sefer HaIkkarim 4:7</a><a href="RYosefAlboSeferHaIkkarim4-12-13" data-aht="source">Sefer HaIkkarim 4:12-13</a><a href="Sefer HaIkkarim" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yosef Albo</a></multilink>,</mekorot> | <mekorot><multilink><a href="BavliBerakhot7a" data-aht="source">Bavli Berakhot</a><a href="BavliBerakhot7a" data-aht="source">Berakhot 7a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, third opinion in <multilink><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">Chovot HaLevavot</a><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">4:3</a><a href="Chovot HaLevavot" data-aht="parshan">About R. Bachya ibn Pakuda</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RYosefAlboSeferHaIkkarim4-7" data-aht="source">R. Yosef Albo</a><a href="RYosefAlboSeferHaIkkarim4-7" data-aht="source">Sefer HaIkkarim 4:7</a><a href="RYosefAlboSeferHaIkkarim4-12-13" data-aht="source">Sefer HaIkkarim 4:12-13</a><a href="Sefer HaIkkarim" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yosef Albo</a></multilink>,</mekorot> | ||
<point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b> – The righteous man is being punished over the sins of his generation, or of his ancestors, and not his own sins.</point> | <point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b> – The righteous man is being punished over the sins of his generation, or of his ancestors, and not his own sins.</point> |
Version as of 22:33, 9 July 2017
Theodicy – צדיק ורע לו
Exegetical Approaches
Mistaken Status of Person
This approach understands that just because a man might seem to be righteous or wicked he might not always actually be so, and Hashem is really paying him his true due.
צדיק ורע לו
- The righteous person is not truly innocent,3 and Hashem is punishing him for the few sins that he committed, even if the majority of his actions were right.
רשע וטוב לו
- The wicked man also performed some good deeds in his life, for which he is being rewarded.
- Hashem is rewarding the wicked man, because there is always a possibility that he will repent, and then be worthy of the reward – R. Saadia, R. Bachye.
Moral justification – This approach claims that almost all humans are neither perfect nor terrible, rather everyone is somewhere in the middle, and that is how one can have a seemingly pious person who is being punished and the opposite as well. However, this approach does not account for the many cases where the compensation does not seem exact, and a man who might have committed just one small sin, seems to be punished for far more than that.
Afflictions of love
Iyyov – The story of Iyyov seems to contradict this approach, since we don't hear from the book that Iyyov committed any sins.
"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"
How does justice work? These sources render, that justice works the way Torah describes it, every man is punished for all his sins and rewarded for all his positive deeds.
Collective punishment – This approach believes that every man is punished for his own sins. The fact one person might have done something wrong does not require anyone else besides for himself to be punished.
Hashem's providence – This approach maintains that Hashem provides for every individual, and not just on a national level.
World to come
Contradicting verses – Ramban explains that the prophets were not questioning whether Hashem was acting justly, rather it was a way of complaining about their fate.
Misperception of Retribution
The retribution people are receiving is part of a wider picture where they are punished and rewarded as they deserve. Hashem ensures this by punishing and rewarding people in the world to come.
Sources:Sifre Devarim, Yerushalmi, Bavli Shabbat, Bavli Chulin, second opinion in R. Saadia Gaon, second opinion in Chovot HaLevavot, Kuzari, Ran, R. Chasdai Crescas, Abarbanel
צדיק ורע לו
- The bad events which occur to the righteous man are not intended as a punishment, rather as a test. Hashem knows they will tolerate the punishments even though they don't deserve them, and as a result, He gives them an abundance of good in the future or in the world to come.
רשע וטוב לו
- Sometimes Hashem keeps the wicked person alive in order for them to witness an even worse punishment than they would have witnessed.
- In some cases, the good is a cause for bad, and the whole purpose really is the punishment.
- Hashem is using the wicked man for a different purpose before he punishes him, such as to fight with a different nation.
Moral justification – Hashem ensures that at the end of a person's life, or in the world to come, they will have received what they deserve.
- The seemingly wrong compensation is just to ensure the strength of the real end of day compensation.
- To publicize the commitment of the righteous man to Hashem even with all the troubles he goes through.
World to come – Most of these sources justify Hashem's ways by saying that the real retribution is in the world to come. However, the whole idea of the world to come is not explicated in the Torah at all.4
"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"
Hashem's providence
Iyyov
Good and evil – According to this approach, not all good and evil in life is necessarily a punishment or a reward.
Afflictions of love
Not Aimed at the Doer
The righteous or wicked man is really not worthy of the retribution they received. However, they are receiving it because they have responsibility over their nation.
צדיק ורע לו – The righteous man is being punished over the sins of his generation, or of his ancestors, and not his own sins.
רשע וטוב לו – The wicked man being part of a nation who is worthy of good, receives good as well, even though he does not deserve it.
Moral justification
Hashem's providence – According to this approach, Hashem provides only or at least generally on a national level, and not for each individual person.
Purposes of the Egyptian bondage – This approach can understand the Egyptian bondage to be a punishment for the sins of previous generations.
"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"
Iyyov
World to come