Difference between revisions of "Philosophy:Theodicy – צדיק ורע לו/2"
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<opinion>Mistaken Status of Person | <opinion>Mistaken Status of Person | ||
<p>People don't deserve what they seem to deserve.  A man might seem to be righteous or wicked, however, he might not always actually be so, and Hashem is really paying him his true due that he deserves.</p> | <p>People don't deserve what they seem to deserve.  A man might seem to be righteous or wicked, however, he might not always actually be so, and Hashem is really paying him his true due that he deserves.</p> | ||
− | <mekorot><multilink><a href="BavliBerakhot7a" data-aht="source">Bavli Berakhot</a><a href="BavliBerakhot7a" data-aht="source">Berakhot 7a</a><a href="BavliBerakhot7b" data-aht="source">Berakhot 7b</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, | + | <mekorot><multilink><a href="BavliBerakhot7a" data-aht="source">Bavli Berakhot</a><a href="BavliBerakhot7a" data-aht="source">Berakhot 7a</a><a href="BavliBerakhot7b" data-aht="source">Berakhot 7b</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, first opinion in <multilink><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-2-3" data-aht="source">R. Saadia Gaon</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-2-3" data-aht="source">HaEmunot VeHaDeiot 5:2-3</a><a href="R. Saadia Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Saadia Gaon</a></multilink>, first opinion in <multilink><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">Chovot HaLevavot</a><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">4:3</a><a href="Chovot HaLevavot" data-aht="parshan">About R. Bachya ibn Pakuda</a></multilink>,<fn>R. Bachya brings the same options brought by R. Saadia Gaon and was influenced by him.  Though R. Bachya develops the third approach further.</fn> <multilink><a href="RambanToratHaAdamShaarHaGemul" data-aht="source">Ramban</a><a href="RambanToratHaAdamShaarHaGemul" data-aht="source">Torat HaAdam Shaar HaGemul</a><a href="RambanVayikra26-11" data-aht="source">Vayikra 26:11</a><a href="RambanDevarim11-13" data-aht="source">Devarim 11:13</a><a href="R. Moshe b. Nachman (Ramban, Nachmanides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe b. Nachman</a></multilink>,</mekorot> |
− | <point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b> – As outsiders, we can never truly know whether a person is totally righteous.  In these cases he must not be truly innocent, and Hashem is punishing him for the few sins that he committed, even if the majority of his actions were right.<br/> | + | <point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b> – As outsiders, we can never truly know whether a person is totally righteous.  In these cases he must not be truly innocent, and Hashem is punishing him for the few sins that he committed, even if the majority of his actions were right.<fn>See also <multilink><a href="BavliBerakhot5a" data-aht="source">Bavli Berakhot</a><a href="BavliBerakhot5a" data-aht="source">Berakhot 5a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink> which suggests that if bad comes on you and you cant figure out why, one should look at their deeds to see if they have done something wrong.</fn><br/> |
<ul> | <ul> | ||
<li>R. Bachya suggests that their sin could be in not convincing their generation to repent, even if they themselves did not commit any sins.</li> | <li>R. Bachya suggests that their sin could be in not convincing their generation to repent, even if they themselves did not commit any sins.</li> | ||
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<opinion>Misperception of Retribution | <opinion>Misperception of Retribution | ||
<p>People aren't actually getting what they seem to be getting.  What seems to us to be a reward or a punishment might not actually be one.</p> | <p>People aren't actually getting what they seem to be getting.  What seems to us to be a reward or a punishment might not actually be one.</p> | ||
− | <mekorot>Third | + | <mekorot>Third opinion in <multilink><a href="RalbagMilchamotHaShem4-5" data-aht="source">Ralbag</a><a href="RalbagMilchamotHaShem4-5" data-aht="source">Milchamot HaShem 4:5</a><a href="RalbagMilchamotHaShem4-6" data-aht="source">Milchamot HaShem 4:6</a><a href="R. Levi b. Gershom (Ralbag, Gersonides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Levi b. Gershom</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="ShadalShemot20-4" data-aht="source">Shadal</a><a href="ShadalShemot20-4" data-aht="source">Shemot 20:4</a><a href="R. Shemuel David Luzzatto (Shadal)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Shemuel David Luzzatto</a></multilink>,</mekorot> |
<point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b><ul> | <point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b><ul> | ||
<li>Sometimes Hashem causes the righteous to suffer a little in order to avoid him from suffering a lot.</li> | <li>Sometimes Hashem causes the righteous to suffer a little in order to avoid him from suffering a lot.</li> | ||
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<category>Compensation in the World to Come | <category>Compensation in the World to Come | ||
<p>The righteous or wicked man is really not worthy of the retribution they received in this world.  However, in the world to come, Hashem ensures they receive their worthy compensation.</p> | <p>The righteous or wicked man is really not worthy of the retribution they received in this world.  However, in the world to come, Hashem ensures they receive their worthy compensation.</p> | ||
− | <mekorot><multilink><a href="TargumOnkelosDevarim7-10" data-aht="source">Targum Onkelos</a><a href="TargumOnkelosDevarim7-10" data-aht="source">Devarim 7:10</a><a href="Targum Onkelos" data-aht="parshan">About Targum Onkelos</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">Sifre Devarim</a><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">11:26</a><a href="Sifre Devarim" data-aht="parshan">About Sifre Devarim</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Yerushalmi</a><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Chagigah 2:1</a><a href="Talmud Yerushalmi" data-aht="parshan">About the Yerushalmi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Bavli</a><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Shabbat 30b</a><a href="BavliKiddushin40b" data-aht="source">Kiddushin 40b</a><a href="BavliChulin142a" data-aht="source">Chulin 142a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, second opinion in <multilink><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-2-3" data-aht="source">R. Saadia Gaon</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-2-3" data-aht="source">HaEmunot VeHaDeiot 5:2-3</a><a href="R. Saadia Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Saadia Gaon</a></multilink>,<fn>R. Saadia Gaon suggests that the true compensation might occur later in life in this world, and does not explicitly say in the world to come.  He brings as examples Iyyov and Paroh who both received at the end of their life, a reward or a punishment, respectively.</fn> second opinion in <multilink><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">Chovot HaLevavot</a><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">4:3</a><a href="Chovot HaLevavot" data-aht="parshan">About R. Bachya ibn Pakuda</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href=" | + | <mekorot><multilink><a href="TargumOnkelosDevarim7-10" data-aht="source">Targum Onkelos</a><a href="TargumOnkelosDevarim7-10" data-aht="source">Devarim 7:10</a><a href="Targum Onkelos" data-aht="parshan">About Targum Onkelos</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">Sifre Devarim</a><a href="SifreDevarim11-26" data-aht="source">11:26</a><a href="Sifre Devarim" data-aht="parshan">About Sifre Devarim</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Yerushalmi</a><a href="YerushalmiChagigah2-1" data-aht="source">Chagigah 2:1</a><a href="Talmud Yerushalmi" data-aht="parshan">About the Yerushalmi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Bavli</a><a href="BavliShabbat30b" data-aht="source">Shabbat 30b</a><a href="BavliTaanit11a" data-aht="source">Taanit 11a</a><a href="BavliKiddushin40b" data-aht="source">Kiddushin 40b</a><a href="BavliChulin142a" data-aht="source">Chulin 142a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>,<fn>According to the Bavli in Taanit, the seemingly wrong retribution is given rightfully because of minute sins or mitzvot performed, and the retribution they do deserve which is missing, will be given to them in the world to come.</fn> <multilink><a href="TargumPseudo-JonathanDevarim7-10" data-aht="source">Targum Pseudo-Jonathan</a><a href="TargumPseudo-JonathanDevarim7-10" data-aht="source">Devarim 7:10</a><a href="Targum Pseudo-Jonathan" data-aht="parshan">About Targum Pseudo-Jonathan</a></multilink>, second opinion in <multilink><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-2-3" data-aht="source">R. Saadia Gaon</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeiot5-2-3" data-aht="source">HaEmunot VeHaDeiot 5:2-3</a><a href="R. Saadia Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Saadia Gaon</a></multilink>,<fn>R. Saadia Gaon suggests that the true compensation might occur later in life in this world, and does not explicitly say in the world to come.  He brings as examples Iyyov and Paroh who both received at the end of their life, a reward or a punishment, respectively.</fn> second opinion in <multilink><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">Chovot HaLevavot</a><a href="ChovotHaLevavot4-3" data-aht="source">4:3</a><a href="Chovot HaLevavot" data-aht="parshan">About R. Bachya ibn Pakuda</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RashiDevarim32-4" data-aht="source">Rashi</a><a href="RashiDevarim32-4" data-aht="source">Devarim 32:4</a><a href="RashiBerakhot5a" data-aht="source">Berakhot 5a</a><a href="R. Shelomo Yitzchaki (Rashi)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Shelomo Yitzchaki</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="Kuzari3-19" data-aht="source">Kuzari</a><a href="Kuzari3-19" data-aht="source">3:19</a><a href="Kuzari6-1" data-aht="source">6:1</a><a href="R. Yehuda HaLevi" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yehuda HaLevi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RadakHoshea14-10" data-aht="source">Radak</a><a href="RadakHoshea14-10" data-aht="source">Hoshea 14:10</a><a href="R. David Kimchi (Radak)" data-aht="parshan">About R. David Kimchi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="DerashotHaRan8" data-aht="source">Ran</a><a href="DerashotHaRan8" data-aht="source">Derashot HaRan 8</a><a href="R. Nissim Gerondi (Ran)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Nissim Gerondi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="SeferHaIkkarim4-12" data-aht="source">Sefer HaIkkarim</a><a href="SeferHaIkkarim4-7" data-aht="source">4:7</a><a href="SeferHaIkkarim4-12" data-aht="source">4:12</a><a href="SeferHaIkkarim4-13" data-aht="source">4:13</a><a href="Sefer HaIkkarim" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yosef Albo</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="AbarbanelDevarim4-15-24" data-aht="source">Abarbanel</a><a href="AbarbanelDevarim4-15-24" data-aht="source">Devarim 4:15-24</a><a href="AbarbanelDevarim32-1" data-aht="source">Devarim 32:1</a><a href="R. Yitzchak Abarbanel" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yitzchak Abarbanel</a></multilink>,<fn>It is not so clear from Abarbanel if a person might get an unworthy retribution in this world, or if a person only does not get all his worthy retribution (being punished only and not rewarded), similarly to the first opinion.</fn></mekorot> |
<point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b> – The righteous man is suffering in this world unjustly, so in the world to come he will get an abundance of good.</point> | <point><b>צדיק ורע לו</b> – The righteous man is suffering in this world unjustly, so in the world to come he will get an abundance of good.</point> | ||
<point><b>רשע וטוב לו</b> – The wicked man being part of a nation who is worthy of good, receives good as well, even though he does not deserve it.</point> | <point><b>רשע וטוב לו</b> – The wicked man being part of a nation who is worthy of good, receives good as well, even though he does not deserve it.</point> | ||
<point><b>Moral justification</b> – In the world to come, Hashem will give the real reward to the righteous and the real punishment to the wicked.</point> | <point><b>Moral justification</b> – In the world to come, Hashem will give the real reward to the righteous and the real punishment to the wicked.</point> | ||
<point><b>Hashem's providence</b> – According to this approach, Hashem provides on a national level, and not for each individual person.</point> | <point><b>Hashem's providence</b> – According to this approach, Hashem provides on a national level, and not for each individual person.</point> | ||
− | |||
<point><b>Why does Hashem do this?</b><ul> | <point><b>Why does Hashem do this?</b><ul> | ||
<li><b>Natural order</b> – Hasehm does not purposely wrong people, rather he lets the world act on its own, and therefore some people in this world do not deserve what happens to them.</li> | <li><b>Natural order</b> – Hasehm does not purposely wrong people, rather he lets the world act on its own, and therefore some people in this world do not deserve what happens to them.</li> | ||
− | <li><b>Test</b> – R. Saadia explains Hashem's purpose to be a test in order to publicize the commitment of the righteous man even with all the troubles he goes through, and seeing the unworthy retribution the wrongdoer received.  Hashem is testing the righteous man to see if he will continue to follow the right path even though he is compensated wrongly.  He knows they will tolerate the punishment they don't deserve, and later on in their life or in the world to come, He gives them an abundance of good.  </li> | + | <li><b>Test</b> – R. Saadia explains Hashem's purpose to be a test in order to publicize the commitment of the righteous man even with all the troubles he goes through, and seeing the unworthy retribution the wrongdoer received.  Hashem is testing the righteous man to see if he will continue to follow the right path even though he is compensated wrongly.  He knows they will tolerate the punishment they don't deserve, and later on in their life or in the world to come, He gives them an abundance of good. </li> |
<li>Hashem is using the wicked man for a different purpose before he punishes him, such as to fight with a different nation.</li> | <li>Hashem is using the wicked man for a different purpose before he punishes him, such as to fight with a different nation.</li> | ||
<li>The righteous man is suffering over the sins of his generation, or of his ancestors, and not his own sins.</li> | <li>The righteous man is suffering over the sins of his generation, or of his ancestors, and not his own sins.</li> | ||
</ul></point> | </ul></point> | ||
+ | <point><b>Iyyov</b> – R. Saadia understands Iyyov's suffering to be a test,<fn>That seems to be the simple reading of the verses, that the Satan wanted to test Iyyov to see if he will continue to worship Hashem even with all his kids dying and his possessions taken.</fn> and as we read at the end of the book, Iyyov got an abundance of good at the end of his life.<fn>See Iyyov 42:12, "וַי"י בֵּרַךְ אֶת אַחֲרִית אִיּוֹב מֵרֵאשִׁתוֹ".</fn></point> | ||
+ | <point><b>Purposes of the Egyptian bondage</b> – This approach can understand the Egyptian bondage to have an educative or formative purpose rather than being a punishment for a sin.</point> | ||
<point><b>"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"</b></point> | <point><b>"פֹּקֵד עֲוֺן אָבוֹת עַל בָּנִים"</b></point> | ||
− | |||
<point><b>World to come</b> – This approach is based heavily on the idea of retribution being given in the world to come, however, the whole concept of the world to come is not explicated in the Torah at all.<fn>R. Chasdai Crescas accounts for this question by saying that the nation coming out of Eygpt knew about the world to come and there was no reason to explicate it.</fn></point> | <point><b>World to come</b> – This approach is based heavily on the idea of retribution being given in the world to come, however, the whole concept of the world to come is not explicated in the Torah at all.<fn>R. Chasdai Crescas accounts for this question by saying that the nation coming out of Eygpt knew about the world to come and there was no reason to explicate it.</fn></point> | ||
<point><b>Afflictions of love</b> – This approach understands that Hashem sometimes afflicts out of love to the person in order to multiply their reward, and not as a punishment over a sin.</point> | <point><b>Afflictions of love</b> – This approach understands that Hashem sometimes afflicts out of love to the person in order to multiply their reward, and not as a punishment over a sin.</point> |
Version as of 05:15, 30 July 2017
Theodicy – צדיק ורע לו
Exegetical Approaches
Compensation in This World
This approach denies the question saying that there are no cases of innocent people being punished or wicked people being rewarded. In all such seeming cases, one needs to reevaluate either the person's righteousness or their compensation.
Mistaken Status of Person
People don't deserve what they seem to deserve. A man might seem to be righteous or wicked, however, he might not always actually be so, and Hashem is really paying him his true due that he deserves.
- R. Bachya suggests that their sin could be in not convincing their generation to repent, even if they themselves did not commit any sins.
- On the other hand, Ramban says suffering can come as a punishment for a sin committed accidentally.
Misperception of Retribution
People aren't actually getting what they seem to be getting. What seems to us to be a reward or a punishment might not actually be one.
- Sometimes Hashem causes the righteous to suffer a little in order to avoid him from suffering a lot.
- Sometimes Hashem keeps the wicked person alive in order for them to witness an even worse punishment than they would have witnessed.
- In some cases, the good is a cause for bad, and the whole purpose really is the punishment. For example by Paroh, Hashem did not punish him in order so he will experience the splitting of the sea which was a harsher punishment than he would have received.
Compensation in the World to Come
The righteous or wicked man is really not worthy of the retribution they received in this world. However, in the world to come, Hashem ensures they receive their worthy compensation.
- Natural order – Hasehm does not purposely wrong people, rather he lets the world act on its own, and therefore some people in this world do not deserve what happens to them.
- Test – R. Saadia explains Hashem's purpose to be a test in order to publicize the commitment of the righteous man even with all the troubles he goes through, and seeing the unworthy retribution the wrongdoer received. Hashem is testing the righteous man to see if he will continue to follow the right path even though he is compensated wrongly. He knows they will tolerate the punishment they don't deserve, and later on in their life or in the world to come, He gives them an abundance of good.
- Hashem is using the wicked man for a different purpose before he punishes him, such as to fight with a different nation.
- The righteous man is suffering over the sins of his generation, or of his ancestors, and not his own sins.