Difference between revisions of "Sinning with Quail/2"

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<point><b>Fish, Vegetables &#160;or Meat?</b> R. Bahya writes that their request for these foods further reflected their gluttonous nature<fn>R. Bahya also quotes Sifre, which discusses גילוי עריות as emerging from the reference of דגה (See Theological Issues/Burden of Commandments/ Fish or Meat?). He writes the Sifre, by introducing sexual relations into the picture, is also highlighting the gluttonous nature of the people. דגה, in addition to being fish, also emphasizes&#160;how much the people were gluttons.<br/><br/></fn>. The request was not exclusively for meat.</point>
 
<point><b>Fish, Vegetables &#160;or Meat?</b> R. Bahya writes that their request for these foods further reflected their gluttonous nature<fn>R. Bahya also quotes Sifre, which discusses גילוי עריות as emerging from the reference of דגה (See Theological Issues/Burden of Commandments/ Fish or Meat?). He writes the Sifre, by introducing sexual relations into the picture, is also highlighting the gluttonous nature of the people. דגה, in addition to being fish, also emphasizes&#160;how much the people were gluttons.<br/><br/></fn>. The request was not exclusively for meat.</point>
 
<point><b>Request of Shemot 16</b> – According to these commentators, it is likely the request in <a href="Shemot16" data-aht="source">Shemot 16</a>&#160;was not sinful at all. There, the people were fighting for survival in that they had absolutely nothing to eat as the Manna had not been introduced. The people in Bemidbar 11 had the Manna already and yet were still desiring more. Their request was not one of survival but of gluttony<fn>The different words used in the Torah for gathering the meat in Bemidbar 11 and gathering the Manna in Shemot 16 and Bemidbar 11:7-8 may reflect this distinction. The root א.ס.פ appears continuously throughout Bemidbar 11. In Shemot 16, the root ל.ק.ט is used. Both of these verbs express the action of gathering. Radak (Yeshaya 17) writes that א.ס.פ is the first reaping done in a field, where one grabs a lot of sheaves in one shot. ל.ק.ט is a reaping done where one picks up one sheaf at a time off the ground. The ambitious reaping, אסיפה, may reflect a more gluttonous gathering of food, as is seen in Bemidbar 11. לקיטה may reflect a more humble, respectful, or simple gathering of food as seen in Shemot 16 and Bemidbar 7-8<br/><br/></fn></point>
 
<point><b>Request of Shemot 16</b> – According to these commentators, it is likely the request in <a href="Shemot16" data-aht="source">Shemot 16</a>&#160;was not sinful at all. There, the people were fighting for survival in that they had absolutely nothing to eat as the Manna had not been introduced. The people in Bemidbar 11 had the Manna already and yet were still desiring more. Their request was not one of survival but of gluttony<fn>The different words used in the Torah for gathering the meat in Bemidbar 11 and gathering the Manna in Shemot 16 and Bemidbar 11:7-8 may reflect this distinction. The root א.ס.פ appears continuously throughout Bemidbar 11. In Shemot 16, the root ל.ק.ט is used. Both of these verbs express the action of gathering. Radak (Yeshaya 17) writes that א.ס.פ is the first reaping done in a field, where one grabs a lot of sheaves in one shot. ל.ק.ט is a reaping done where one picks up one sheaf at a time off the ground. The ambitious reaping, אסיפה, may reflect a more gluttonous gathering of food, as is seen in Bemidbar 11. לקיטה may reflect a more humble, respectful, or simple gathering of food as seen in Shemot 16 and Bemidbar 7-8<br/><br/></fn></point>
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<point><b>בוכח למשפחותיו</b> – R. Avraham Ibn Ezra understands this phrase as expressing as comparing the people's response to those who cry over their dead<fn>R. Yosef Bekhor Shor emphasizes the nation's exaggerated cries later in 11:19 where he compares the people to a baby&#160;crying over nothing.&#160;</fn>.</point>
 
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<category>Theological Issues
 
<category>Theological Issues
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<point><b>Fish or Meat?</b> Shmuel (Yoma 75b) asserts that דגים is actually a reference to illicit sexual relations, which were&#160;not yet prohibited to the Israelites in Egypt<fn>Rashi, Maharsha (Yoma 75b), and Daat Zekeinim (Bemidbar 11) all explain how&#160;the root of דגה can also mean sexual relations. (See Bereishit 48:16)</fn>.&#160;Longing for "fish" is another expression of ridding of restrictive commandments.</point>
 
<point><b>Fish or Meat?</b> Shmuel (Yoma 75b) asserts that דגים is actually a reference to illicit sexual relations, which were&#160;not yet prohibited to the Israelites in Egypt<fn>Rashi, Maharsha (Yoma 75b), and Daat Zekeinim (Bemidbar 11) all explain how&#160;the root of דגה can also mean sexual relations. (See Bereishit 48:16)</fn>.&#160;Longing for "fish" is another expression of ridding of restrictive commandments.</point>
 
<point><b>Request of Shemot 16</b> – Rashi argues that the request for meat in Shemot was also a negative, gluttonous request<fn>Yoma 75a writes that Hashem gave meat "לא כהוגן," "improperly," because it was asked for "לא כהוגן."&#160;Most read this statement a referring to the request for meat in Shemot 16. There, meat was given at night, a more inconvenient time to collect. See עיון יעקב&#160;who argues the Gemara refers to Bemidbar 11 instead,</fn>.&#160;Nonetheless, such a request&#160;was not as severe as the one in Bemidbar 11.</point>
 
<point><b>Request of Shemot 16</b> – Rashi argues that the request for meat in Shemot was also a negative, gluttonous request<fn>Yoma 75a writes that Hashem gave meat "לא כהוגן," "improperly," because it was asked for "לא כהוגן."&#160;Most read this statement a referring to the request for meat in Shemot 16. There, meat was given at night, a more inconvenient time to collect. See עיון יעקב&#160;who argues the Gemara refers to Bemidbar 11 instead,</fn>.&#160;Nonetheless, such a request&#160;was not as severe as the one in Bemidbar 11.</point>
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<point><b>בוכה למשפחותיו</b> – These commentators understand that the crying by families was really a crying&#160;<i>about</i> families. Once the prohibitions of illicit sexual relations were introduced, families&#160;</point>
 
</opinion>
 
</opinion>
 
<opinion>Testing Hashem's Abilities
 
<opinion>Testing Hashem's Abilities
<p>Complaints about food and meat challenge Hashem's ability to provide food for the hungry nation</p>
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<p>Complaints about food and meat challenge Hashem's ability to provide food for the hungry nation. Such a lack of belief could be tantamount to &#160;idolatry and warrant an extreme punishment.&#160;</p>
 
<mekorot><a href="SifreBemidbar11-4" data-aht="source">Sifre</a>,&#160;<a href="RashiBemidbar11-5" data-aht="source">Rashi</a>,&#160;<multilink><a href="MalbimBemidbar11-10" data-aht="source">Malbim #1</a><a href="MalbimBemidbar11-10" data-aht="source">Bemidbar 11:10</a><a href="MalbimTehillimBeurHaInyan78-18" data-aht="source">Tehillim Beur HaInyan 78:18</a><a href="R. Meir Leibush Weiser (Malbim)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Meir Leibush Weiser</a></multilink>, <a href="SefornoBemidbar11-4" data-aht="source">Seforno</a>, <a href="RidBemidbar11-4" data-aht="source">Zedekiah Ben R. Abraham</a>, <a href="HaKetavVeHaKabbalahBemidbar11-4" data-aht="source">HaKetav VeHaKabbalah</a>, <a href="RalbagBemidbarToalot11-31" data-aht="source">Ralbag #2</a>,&#160;<a href="RambamMorehNevukhim136" data-aht="source">Rambam</a></mekorot>
 
<mekorot><a href="SifreBemidbar11-4" data-aht="source">Sifre</a>,&#160;<a href="RashiBemidbar11-5" data-aht="source">Rashi</a>,&#160;<multilink><a href="MalbimBemidbar11-10" data-aht="source">Malbim #1</a><a href="MalbimBemidbar11-10" data-aht="source">Bemidbar 11:10</a><a href="MalbimTehillimBeurHaInyan78-18" data-aht="source">Tehillim Beur HaInyan 78:18</a><a href="R. Meir Leibush Weiser (Malbim)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Meir Leibush Weiser</a></multilink>, <a href="SefornoBemidbar11-4" data-aht="source">Seforno</a>, <a href="RidBemidbar11-4" data-aht="source">Zedekiah Ben R. Abraham</a>, <a href="HaKetavVeHaKabbalahBemidbar11-4" data-aht="source">HaKetav VeHaKabbalah</a>, <a href="RalbagBemidbarToalot11-31" data-aht="source">Ralbag #2</a>,&#160;<a href="RambamMorehNevukhim136" data-aht="source">Rambam</a></mekorot>
<point><b>Request of Shemot 16</b></point>
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<point><b>Request of Shemot 16</b> – In Shemot 16, though a similar request was made, it is unlikely that request was sinful. There, the request as directed at Moshe and Aharon. The nation was, perhaps, seeking an answer to their issues. In Bemidbar 11,&#160;the request was directed at no one. The people, perhaps, were not looking for a real answer to the request. They merely expressed their lack of faith in Hashem's providence and did not care to verify whether He could provide.</point>
 +
<point><b>בחנם</b> – &#160;Ramban asserts that Egyptian taskmasters would have the Israelites catch fish for them in the Nile and would allow the slaves to take fish once in a while. R. Yosef Bekhor Shor argues that when the Nile would overflow, fish would remain on the soil and be left ownerless for anyone to take. For these commentators, חנם literally means "free of charge."</point>
 +
<point><b>Fish or Meat</b> – The request was not limited to meat. The people also questioned Hashem's ability to provide fish as well.</point>
 +
<point><b>בוכה למשפחותיו</b> – Rashi writes that&#160;the people gathered families together to publicize their complaint against Hashem.</point>
 
</opinion>
 
</opinion>
 
</category>
 
</category>

Version as of 01:55, 14 June 2018

Sinning with Quail

Exegetical Approaches

This topic has not yet undergone editorial review

Gluttony

The Israelites' gluttony warrants an intense punishment from Hashem

Eating "בחנם" –  Ramban asserts that Egyptian taskmasters would have the Israelites catch fish for them in the Nile and would allow the slaves to take fish once in a while. R. Yosef Bekhor Shor argues that when the Nile would overflow, fish would remain on the soil and be left ownerless for anyone to take. For these commentators, חנם literally means "free of charge."
Fish, Vegetables  or Meat? R. Bahya writes that their request for these foods further reflected their gluttonous nature1. The request was not exclusively for meat.
Request of Shemot 16 – According to these commentators, it is likely the request in Shemot 16 was not sinful at all. There, the people were fighting for survival in that they had absolutely nothing to eat as the Manna had not been introduced. The people in Bemidbar 11 had the Manna already and yet were still desiring more. Their request was not one of survival but of gluttony2
בוכח למשפחותיו – R. Avraham Ibn Ezra understands this phrase as expressing as comparing the people's response to those who cry over their dead3.

Theological Issues

Burden of Commandments

Desire for food and meat are actually masks for a want of freedom from restrictive commandments.

Eating בחנם – These commentators reason that בחנם truly means "free from commandments4." In Egypt, before the giving of the Torah, the Israelites were not bound by any eating restrictions and could indulge in any food they pleased.
Fish or Meat? Shmuel (Yoma 75b) asserts that דגים is actually a reference to illicit sexual relations, which were not yet prohibited to the Israelites in Egypt5. Longing for "fish" is another expression of ridding of restrictive commandments.
Request of Shemot 16 – Rashi argues that the request for meat in Shemot was also a negative, gluttonous request6. Nonetheless, such a request was not as severe as the one in Bemidbar 11.
בוכה למשפחותיו – These commentators understand that the crying by families was really a crying about families. Once the prohibitions of illicit sexual relations were introduced, families 

Testing Hashem's Abilities

Complaints about food and meat challenge Hashem's ability to provide food for the hungry nation. Such a lack of belief could be tantamount to  idolatry and warrant an extreme punishment. 

Request of Shemot 16 – In Shemot 16, though a similar request was made, it is unlikely that request was sinful. There, the request as directed at Moshe and Aharon. The nation was, perhaps, seeking an answer to their issues. In Bemidbar 11, the request was directed at no one. The people, perhaps, were not looking for a real answer to the request. They merely expressed their lack of faith in Hashem's providence and did not care to verify whether He could provide.
בחנם –  Ramban asserts that Egyptian taskmasters would have the Israelites catch fish for them in the Nile and would allow the slaves to take fish once in a while. R. Yosef Bekhor Shor argues that when the Nile would overflow, fish would remain on the soil and be left ownerless for anyone to take. For these commentators, חנם literally means "free of charge."
Fish or Meat – The request was not limited to meat. The people also questioned Hashem's ability to provide fish as well.
בוכה למשפחותיו – Rashi writes that the people gathered families together to publicize their complaint against Hashem.

Educational Expectations

Lack of Appreciation

While the request itself was not problematic, Hashem punished the Israelites for their lack of appreciation for their freedom from Egypt.

Request of Shemot 16

Educational Development

The Israelites' request portrayed the nation's failure of inculcating the the essential messages of th Manna and revelation at Sinai.

Request of Shemot 16