Difference between revisions of "Chronology of Shemuel I 16 – 17/2"
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<p>The chapters are written in their proper chronological order.</p> | <p>The chapters are written in their proper chronological order.</p> | ||
<mekorot><multilink><a href="BavliYevamot76b" data-aht="source">Bavli Yevamot</a><a href="BavliYevamot76b" data-aht="source">Yevamot 76b</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RShemuelbChofniGaonBereshit48-8" data-aht="source">R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon</a><a href="RShemuelbChofniGaonBereshit48-8" data-aht="source">Bereshit 48:8</a><a href="R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon</a></multilink> #2, <multilink><a href="RashiShemuelI17-15" data-aht="source">Rashi</a><a href="RashiShemuelI17-15" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 17:15</a><a href="RashiShemuelI17-55" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 17:55</a><a href="R. Shelomo Yitzchaki (Rashi)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Shelomo Yitzchaki</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RadakShemuelI17-12" data-aht="source">Radak</a><a href="RadakShemuelI17-12" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 17:12</a><a href="RadakShemuelI17-55" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 17:55</a><a href="R. David Kimchi (Radak)" data-aht="parshan">About R. David Kimchi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RalbagShemuelI17-55" data-aht="source">Ralbag</a><a href="RalbagShemuelI17-55" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 17:55</a><a href="R. Levi b. Gershom (Ralbag, Gersonides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Levi b. Gershom</a></multilink></mekorot> | <mekorot><multilink><a href="BavliYevamot76b" data-aht="source">Bavli Yevamot</a><a href="BavliYevamot76b" data-aht="source">Yevamot 76b</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RShemuelbChofniGaonBereshit48-8" data-aht="source">R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon</a><a href="RShemuelbChofniGaonBereshit48-8" data-aht="source">Bereshit 48:8</a><a href="R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon</a></multilink> #2, <multilink><a href="RashiShemuelI17-15" data-aht="source">Rashi</a><a href="RashiShemuelI17-15" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 17:15</a><a href="RashiShemuelI17-55" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 17:55</a><a href="R. Shelomo Yitzchaki (Rashi)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Shelomo Yitzchaki</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RadakShemuelI17-12" data-aht="source">Radak</a><a href="RadakShemuelI17-12" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 17:12</a><a href="RadakShemuelI17-55" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 17:55</a><a href="R. David Kimchi (Radak)" data-aht="parshan">About R. David Kimchi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RalbagShemuelI17-55" data-aht="source">Ralbag</a><a href="RalbagShemuelI17-55" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 17:55</a><a href="R. Levi b. Gershom (Ralbag, Gersonides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Levi b. Gershom</a></multilink></mekorot> | ||
| − | <point><b> | + | <point><b>Why didn't Shaul recognize David?</b> These commentators offer several possibilities:<br/> |
<ul> | <ul> | ||
<li><b>Too busy –</b> Ralbag and Ibn Kaspi assert that since Shaul had so many different concerns in the kingdom, he did not remember the names and details of all of his servants.<fn>The Rid adds that David only worked part time in the palace, as he went to and from there to shepherd his father's sheep.</fn></li> | <li><b>Too busy –</b> Ralbag and Ibn Kaspi assert that since Shaul had so many different concerns in the kingdom, he did not remember the names and details of all of his servants.<fn>The Rid adds that David only worked part time in the palace, as he went to and from there to shepherd his father's sheep.</fn></li> | ||
<li><b>Shaul was asking a different question –</b> Bavli Yevamot, and others in its wake,<fn>See Rashi, R"Y Kara, and Radak.</fn> explain that Shaul was not asking for David's name but rather his lineage, to ascertain his worthiness to rule. This, however, is somewhat difficult as Shaul already knew who David's father was (see 16:22) and David does not offer any further identification.</li> | <li><b>Shaul was asking a different question –</b> Bavli Yevamot, and others in its wake,<fn>See Rashi, R"Y Kara, and Radak.</fn> explain that Shaul was not asking for David's name but rather his lineage, to ascertain his worthiness to rule. This, however, is somewhat difficult as Shaul already knew who David's father was (see 16:22) and David does not offer any further identification.</li> | ||
| − | <li><b>Evil</b> <b>Spirit</b> – Rabbi Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon<fn>See his second suggestion.  See also the Rid and Ibn Kaspi who also raises this as a possible solution.</fn> suggests that when the "evil spirit" () came upon Shaul he became confused and no longer remembered who David was.<fn>One might question, however, why Avner too did not know David's identity.</fn></li> | + | <li><b>Evil</b> <b>Spirit</b> – Rabbi Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon<fn>See his second suggestion.  See also the Rid and Ibn Kaspi who also raises this as a possible solution.</fn> suggests that when the "evil spirit" (רוּחַ הָרָעָה) came upon Shaul he became confused and no longer remembered who David was.<fn>One might question, however, why Avner too did not know David's identity.</fn></li> |
</ul></point> | </ul></point> | ||
<point><b>Why was David in Beit Lechem?</b> Rashi and Radak explain that the phrase "וְדָוִד הֹלֵךְ וָשָׁב מֵעַל שָׁאוּל" comes to teach that David only worked part time in the palace, and shepherded at home in between.  However, if David had already been appointed the king's arms-bearer, it is strange that he would have been sent home specifically when a war was going on. </point> | <point><b>Why was David in Beit Lechem?</b> Rashi and Radak explain that the phrase "וְדָוִד הֹלֵךְ וָשָׁב מֵעַל שָׁאוּל" comes to teach that David only worked part time in the palace, and shepherded at home in between.  However, if David had already been appointed the king's arms-bearer, it is strange that he would have been sent home specifically when a war was going on. </point> | ||
<point><b>"כִּי נַעַר אַתָּה" versus "וְגִבּוֹר חַיִל וְאִישׁ מִלְחָמָה"</b> – This position might say that when the servants introduce David to Shaul, they refer to him as a valiant warrior despite his lack of true experience because they want to present him in the best possible light.  When Shaul evaluates his chances at winning Golyat, in contrast, he belittles whatever might and courage David might have, because he deems them insignificant when compared with Golyat's vast military knowledge and capabilities.</point> | <point><b>"כִּי נַעַר אַתָּה" versus "וְגִבּוֹר חַיִל וְאִישׁ מִלְחָמָה"</b> – This position might say that when the servants introduce David to Shaul, they refer to him as a valiant warrior despite his lack of true experience because they want to present him in the best possible light.  When Shaul evaluates his chances at winning Golyat, in contrast, he belittles whatever might and courage David might have, because he deems them insignificant when compared with Golyat's vast military knowledge and capabilities.</point> | ||
<point><b>Doubling of David's family details</b> – It is not clear why the verses need to introduce David's family a second time in Chapter 17 if the reader already knows this information from the previous chapter.<fn>If the verses had only mentioned the sons who went to war, the repetition would be understandable as it comes to explain why David went to visit the Isarelite camp. However, the mention of Yishai and the fact that he had eight sons seems redundant as it shares no new information.</fn></point> | <point><b>Doubling of David's family details</b> – It is not clear why the verses need to introduce David's family a second time in Chapter 17 if the reader already knows this information from the previous chapter.<fn>If the verses had only mentioned the sons who went to war, the repetition would be understandable as it comes to explain why David went to visit the Isarelite camp. However, the mention of Yishai and the fact that he had eight sons seems redundant as it shares no new information.</fn></point> | ||
| − | <point><b>Eliav's attitude to David</b> – Eliav might speak scornfully to David, not despite his anointment and appointment as arms-bearer, but because of it.  It is possible that his attitude stems from jealousy that  he was rejected, while David was | + | <point><b>Eliav's attitude to David</b> – Eliav might speak scornfully to David, not despite his anointment and appointment as arms-bearer, but because of it.  It is possible that his attitude stems from jealousy that  he was rejected, while David was promoted into the king's service. Nonetheless, it is strange that Eliav should speak with David as if he had no business coming to the battlefield, if David had already served as Shaul's arms-bearer.</point> |
<point><b>אין מוקדם ומאוחר</b></point> | <point><b>אין מוקדם ומאוחר</b></point> | ||
<point><b>David's rise to power</b></point> | <point><b>David's rise to power</b></point> | ||
| − | <point><b> | + | <point><b>"וַיִּקָּחֵהוּ שָׁאוּל בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא" – when?</b> According to the commentary attributed to R"Y Kara,  this refers to Shaul's appointing David to be a permanent, rather than temporary, member of the royal household after his victory over Golyat.</point> |
</category> | </category> | ||
<category>Achronological Order | <category>Achronological Order | ||
Version as of 14:08, 9 November 2016
Chronology of Shemuel I 16 – 17
Exegetical Approaches
Chronological Order
The chapters are written in their proper chronological order.
Why didn't Shaul recognize David? These commentators offer several possibilities:
- Too busy – Ralbag and Ibn Kaspi assert that since Shaul had so many different concerns in the kingdom, he did not remember the names and details of all of his servants.1
- Shaul was asking a different question – Bavli Yevamot, and others in its wake,2 explain that Shaul was not asking for David's name but rather his lineage, to ascertain his worthiness to rule. This, however, is somewhat difficult as Shaul already knew who David's father was (see 16:22) and David does not offer any further identification.
- Evil Spirit – Rabbi Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon3 suggests that when the "evil spirit" (רוּחַ הָרָעָה) came upon Shaul he became confused and no longer remembered who David was.4
Why was David in Beit Lechem? Rashi and Radak explain that the phrase "וְדָוִד הֹלֵךְ וָשָׁב מֵעַל שָׁאוּל" comes to teach that David only worked part time in the palace, and shepherded at home in between. However, if David had already been appointed the king's arms-bearer, it is strange that he would have been sent home specifically when a war was going on.
"כִּי נַעַר אַתָּה" versus "וְגִבּוֹר חַיִל וְאִישׁ מִלְחָמָה" – This position might say that when the servants introduce David to Shaul, they refer to him as a valiant warrior despite his lack of true experience because they want to present him in the best possible light. When Shaul evaluates his chances at winning Golyat, in contrast, he belittles whatever might and courage David might have, because he deems them insignificant when compared with Golyat's vast military knowledge and capabilities.
Doubling of David's family details – It is not clear why the verses need to introduce David's family a second time in Chapter 17 if the reader already knows this information from the previous chapter.5
Eliav's attitude to David – Eliav might speak scornfully to David, not despite his anointment and appointment as arms-bearer, but because of it. It is possible that his attitude stems from jealousy that he was rejected, while David was promoted into the king's service. Nonetheless, it is strange that Eliav should speak with David as if he had no business coming to the battlefield, if David had already served as Shaul's arms-bearer.
אין מוקדם ומאוחר
David's rise to power
"וַיִּקָּחֵהוּ שָׁאוּל בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא" – when? According to the commentary attributed to R"Y Kara, this refers to Shaul's appointing David to be a permanent, rather than temporary, member of the royal household after his victory over Golyat.
Achronological Order
Sources:R. Shemuel b. Chofni Gaon #1
How did Shaul not recognize David?
How was David in Beit Lechem?
17:33 – "כִּי נַעַר אַתָּה וְהוּא אִישׁ מִלְחָמָה מִנְּעֻרָיו"
Doubling of list of Yishai's sons
Eliav's attitude to David
אין מוקדם ומאוחר
Overlapping stories
How did Shaul not recognize David?
How was David in Beit Lechem?
17:33 – "כִּי נַעַר אַתָּה וְהוּא אִישׁ מִלְחָמָה מִנְּעֻרָיו"
Doubling of list of Yishai's sons
Eliav's attitude to David
אין מוקדם ומאוחר
