Difference between revisions of "Concerns Regarding the Monarchy/2"

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<point><b>"שִׂימָה לָּנוּ מֶלֶךְ לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ"</b> – One might argue that in their initial request, the people actually make no mention of any military role, but only a judicial one (לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ). Prof. Elitzur responds that the people were using the verb "שפט" in the military sense of the word,<fn>See also Radak's second possibility in explaining the word&#160; "וּשְׁפָטָנוּ" in verse 22: "או פירושו יקח משפטינו מיד אויבינו".&#160; According to this understanding, the last two clauses of the verse, ",וְיָצָא לְפָנֵינוּ וְנִלְחַם אֶת מִלְחֲמֹתֵנוּ" clarify what is meant by the initial phrase, "וּשְׁפָטָנוּ מַלְכֵּנוּ" .</fn> asking for a king who would serve as a שופט, like the leaders of the Book of Judges who were mainly saviors in war.</point>
 
<point><b>"שִׂימָה לָּנוּ מֶלֶךְ לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ"</b> – One might argue that in their initial request, the people actually make no mention of any military role, but only a judicial one (לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ). Prof. Elitzur responds that the people were using the verb "שפט" in the military sense of the word,<fn>See also Radak's second possibility in explaining the word&#160; "וּשְׁפָטָנוּ" in verse 22: "או פירושו יקח משפטינו מיד אויבינו".&#160; According to this understanding, the last two clauses of the verse, ",וְיָצָא לְפָנֵינוּ וְנִלְחַם אֶת מִלְחֲמֹתֵנוּ" clarify what is meant by the initial phrase, "וּשְׁפָטָנוּ מַלְכֵּנוּ" .</fn> asking for a king who would serve as a שופט, like the leaders of the Book of Judges who were mainly saviors in war.</point>
 
<point><b>What is wrong with desiring a military leader?</b><ul>
 
<point><b>What is wrong with desiring a military leader?</b><ul>
<li><b>Lack of trust</b> – Radak asserts that the desire for a human warrior displays a lack of trust in Hashem to save them.</li>
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<li><b>Lack of trust</b> – Radak asserts that the desire for a human warrior displays a lack of trust in Hashem to save the nation.</li>
<li><b>Attribution of success to self</b> – In addition, having a king makes it likely that the people will attribute all their successes to their human leader, as opposed to Hashem.<fn>See the <multilink><a href="MinchahBelulahDevarim17-14" data-aht="source">Minchah Belulah</a><a href="MinchahBelulahDevarim17-14" data-aht="source">Devarim 17:14</a><a href="R. Avraham Porto (Minchah Belulah)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Avraham Porto</a></multilink> on Devarim 17, who asserts that the nation was not permitted to appoint a king until after the Conquest so that they would not attribute it to their human leader instead of Hashem.</fn> This, in turn, will result in their not even turning to Hashem for aid when needed, as they replace Him with their new king.<fn>In fact, in contrast to Sefer Shofetim which is filled with phrases such as "and they cried out to Hashem", after our chapter, such language is absent from the books of Shemuel, Melakhim and Divrei HaYamim.</fn>&#160; This is, in fact, what Shemuel himself says to the people when he appoints Shaul, "וְאַתֶּם הַיּוֹם מְאַסְתֶּם אֶת אֱלֹהֵיכֶם אֲשֶׁר <b>הוּא מוֹשִׁיעַ</b> לָכֶם מִכׇּל רָעוֹתֵיכֶם וְצָרֹתֵיכֶם וַתֹּאמְרוּ לוֹ כִּי מֶלֶךְ תָּשִׂים עָלֵינוּ" (<a href="ShemuelI10-18-20" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 10:18-20</a>).<fn>See <a href="Shaul's Sin in Gilgal" data-aht="page">Shaul's Sin in Gilgal</a> and&#160;<a href="Shaul Loses the Kingship" data-aht="page">Shaul Loses the Kingship</a> that Shaul's downfall might have been this very issue, an attribution of success to himself rather than Hashem.</fn></li>
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<li><b>Attribution of success to self</b> – In addition, having a king makes it likely that the people will attribute all their successes to their human leader,<fn>See <a href="Shaul's Sin in Gilgal" data-aht="page">Shaul's Sin in Gilgal</a> and&#160;<a href="Shaul Loses the Kingship" data-aht="page">Shaul Loses the Kingship</a> that Shaul's downfall might have been this very issue, an attribution of success to himself rather than Hashem.</fn> as opposed to Hashem.<fn>See the <multilink><a href="MinchahBelulahDevarim17-14" data-aht="source">Minchah Belulah</a><a href="MinchahBelulahDevarim17-14" data-aht="source">Devarim 17:14</a><a href="R. Avraham Porto (Minchah Belulah)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Avraham Porto</a></multilink> on Devarim 17, who asserts that the nation was not permitted to appoint a king until after the Conquest so that they would not attribute it to their human leader instead of Hashem.</fn> This, in turn, will result in their not even turning to Hashem for aid when needed, as they replace Him with their new king.<fn>In fact, in contrast to Sefer Shofetim which is filled with phrases such as "and they cried out to Hashem", after our chapter, such language is absent from the books of Shemuel, Melakhim and Divrei HaYamim.</fn>&#160;</li>
 
<li><b>Misconception as to causes of war</b> – Prof. Elitzur adds that the request betrays the people's lack of understanding that wars and troubles come as a result of sin.<fn>They believed that the cause of their enemies' attacks was natural, the lack of a king, not realizing that the true reason was that they did not listen to Hashem.</fn>&#160; The solution was not to find a king, but rather to repent and return to God.<fn>In fact, appointing a king would exacerbate the problem of sin and punishment.&#160; Beforehand, when troubles came, the people would at least then remember Hashem and turn to Him.&#160; Now that would no longer be the case.</fn></li>
 
<li><b>Misconception as to causes of war</b> – Prof. Elitzur adds that the request betrays the people's lack of understanding that wars and troubles come as a result of sin.<fn>They believed that the cause of their enemies' attacks was natural, the lack of a king, not realizing that the true reason was that they did not listen to Hashem.</fn>&#160; The solution was not to find a king, but rather to repent and return to God.<fn>In fact, appointing a king would exacerbate the problem of sin and punishment.&#160; Beforehand, when troubles came, the people would at least then remember Hashem and turn to Him.&#160; Now that would no longer be the case.</fn></li>
 
</ul></point>
 
</ul></point>
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<li>Alternatively, in Devarim Hashem is referring to a king whose primary role was not military in nature but judicial or spiritual. Such a monarch would not have been problematic, yet, even so, Hashem enacts laws to curb his power and remind him that he is subservient to Hashem.&#160; Otherwise there is a fear that he will become haughty and see himself as a replacement for Hashem, leading him and the nation to depend on the monarch and not God.</li>
 
<li>Alternatively, in Devarim Hashem is referring to a king whose primary role was not military in nature but judicial or spiritual. Such a monarch would not have been problematic, yet, even so, Hashem enacts laws to curb his power and remind him that he is subservient to Hashem.&#160; Otherwise there is a fear that he will become haughty and see himself as a replacement for Hashem, leading him and the nation to depend on the monarch and not God.</li>
 
</ul></point>
 
</ul></point>
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<point><b>Shemeul's speech when anointing Shaul</b> – When Shemuel appoints Shaul as king, he reminds the people that it is Hashem, not their new king, who is their true savior:&#160; "וְאַתֶּם הַיּוֹם מְאַסְתֶּם אֶת אֱלֹהֵיכֶם אֲשֶׁר <b>הוּא מוֹשִׁיעַ</b> לָכֶם מִכׇּל רָעוֹתֵיכֶם וְצָרֹתֵיכֶם וַתֹּאמְרוּ לוֹ כִּי מֶלֶךְ תָּשִׂים עָלֵינוּ" (<a href="ShemuelI10-18-20" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 10:18-20</a>). This further supports this position's understanding of the people's flawed request.</point>
 
<point><b>Shemuel's speech in Chapter 12</b> – Throughout his speech, Shemuel brings examples of how, in the past, when the Israelites found themselves in danger, they would cry out to Hashem, recognizing that they had sinned. This, he hints, is what they were supposed to do, not ask for a king. Similarly, Shemuel might intentionally bring a sign from non-seasonal rain since, in Torah, rain and the lack thereof is a barometer of the people's observance of Hashem's commandments and a reminder of our dependence upon Him.</point>
 
<point><b>Shemuel's speech in Chapter 12</b> – Throughout his speech, Shemuel brings examples of how, in the past, when the Israelites found themselves in danger, they would cry out to Hashem, recognizing that they had sinned. This, he hints, is what they were supposed to do, not ask for a king. Similarly, Shemuel might intentionally bring a sign from non-seasonal rain since, in Torah, rain and the lack thereof is a barometer of the people's observance of Hashem's commandments and a reminder of our dependence upon Him.</point>
 
<point><b>Parallel to Gidon</b> – After Gidon's victory over Midyan, the people make the same mistake they do here, requesting that Gidon lead them as king because "you saved us from Midyan".&#160; Gidon refuses, teaching the nation: "לֹא אֶמְשֹׁל אֲנִי בָּכֶם וְלֹא יִמְשֹׁל בְּנִי בָּכֶם י"י יִמְשֹׁל בָּכֶם" (<a href="Shofetim8-22-23" data-aht="source">Shofetim 8:22-23</a>).</point>
 
<point><b>Parallel to Gidon</b> – After Gidon's victory over Midyan, the people make the same mistake they do here, requesting that Gidon lead them as king because "you saved us from Midyan".&#160; Gidon refuses, teaching the nation: "לֹא אֶמְשֹׁל אֲנִי בָּכֶם וְלֹא יִמְשֹׁל בְּנִי בָּכֶם י"י יִמְשֹׁל בָּכֶם" (<a href="Shofetim8-22-23" data-aht="source">Shofetim 8:22-23</a>).</point>
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<category>Rejection of the Shofet
 
<category>Rejection of the Shofet
 
<p>The people's desire for a king "to judge us" was problematic either because it usurped the institution of judges as a whole, or because it was a personal affront to Shemuel specifically.</p>
 
<p>The people's desire for a king "to judge us" was problematic either because it usurped the institution of judges as a whole, or because it was a personal affront to Shemuel specifically.</p>
<mekorot>
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<opinion>Insult to Shemuel
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<mekorot>
 
<multilink><a href="RambamHilkhotMelakhim1-2" data-aht="source">Rambam</a><a href="RambamHilkhotMelakhim1-2" data-aht="source">Hilkhot Melakhim 1:2</a><a href="R. Moshe b. Maimon (Rambam, Maimonides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe b. Maimon</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RambanBeresehit49-10" data-aht="source">Ramban</a><a href="RambanBeresehit49-10" data-aht="source">Beresehit 49:10</a><a href="R. Moshe b. Nachman (Ramban, Nachmanides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe b. Nachman</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RYosefibnKaspiShemuelI8-6" data-aht="source">R. Yosef ibn Kaspi</a><a href="RYosefibnKaspiShemuelI8-6" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 8:6</a><a href="R. Yosef ibn Kaspi" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yosef ibn Kaspi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="Ran11" data-aht="source">Ran</a><a href="Ran11" data-aht="source">Derashot HaRan 11</a><a href="R. Nissim Gerondi (Ran)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Nissim Gerondi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="MalbimShemuelI8-6" data-aht="source">Malbim #2</a><a href="MalbimShemuelI8-6" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 8:6</a><a href="R. Meir Leibush Weiser (Malbim)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Meir Leibush Weiser</a></multilink>, Hoil Moshe
 
<multilink><a href="RambamHilkhotMelakhim1-2" data-aht="source">Rambam</a><a href="RambamHilkhotMelakhim1-2" data-aht="source">Hilkhot Melakhim 1:2</a><a href="R. Moshe b. Maimon (Rambam, Maimonides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe b. Maimon</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RambanBeresehit49-10" data-aht="source">Ramban</a><a href="RambanBeresehit49-10" data-aht="source">Beresehit 49:10</a><a href="R. Moshe b. Nachman (Ramban, Nachmanides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe b. Nachman</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RYosefibnKaspiShemuelI8-6" data-aht="source">R. Yosef ibn Kaspi</a><a href="RYosefibnKaspiShemuelI8-6" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 8:6</a><a href="R. Yosef ibn Kaspi" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yosef ibn Kaspi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="Ran11" data-aht="source">Ran</a><a href="Ran11" data-aht="source">Derashot HaRan 11</a><a href="R. Nissim Gerondi (Ran)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Nissim Gerondi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="MalbimShemuelI8-6" data-aht="source">Malbim #2</a><a href="MalbimShemuelI8-6" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 8:6</a><a href="R. Meir Leibush Weiser (Malbim)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Meir Leibush Weiser</a></multilink>, Hoil Moshe
</mekorot>
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</mekorot>
<point><b>"לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ"</b> – These sources all pick up on the nation's request "שִׂימָה לָּנוּ מֶלֶךְ <b>לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ</b>", claiming that Shemuel is upset specifically by the people's request&#160; for a king who "will judge us."<fn>The Ran and Malbim point out that had they asked for a king without elaboration or for a military leader, that would not have been problematic.</fn></point>
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<point><b>"לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ"</b> – These sources all pick up on the nation's request "שִׂימָה לָּנוּ מֶלֶךְ <b>לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ</b>", claiming that Shemuel is upset specifically by the people's request&#160; for a king who "will judge us."<fn>The Ran and Malbim point out that had they asked for a king without elaboration or for a military leader, that would not have been problematic.</fn></point>
<point><b>Shemuel's sons</b> – The fact that the people preface their request for a king with their complaints about Shemuel's sons not following in their father's way, supports the idea that their main desire in a king was to find a replacement for Shemuel in his capacity as judge.</point>
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<point><b>Shemuel's sons</b> – The fact that the people preface their request for a king with their complaints about Shemuel's sons not following in their father's way, supports the idea that their main desire in a king was to find a replacement for Shemuel in his capacity as judge.</point>
<point><b>What is wrong with the request?</b><ul>
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<point><b>What is wrong with the request?</b><ul>
 
<li><b>Personal insult</b> – Rambam, Ramban, Malbim and Hoil Moshe assert that though the institution of monarchy in and of itself is fine,<fn>Rambam asserts that had they requested a monarch in order to fulfill the commandment, that would have been commended, but since they did so out of disgust with Shemuel and his family, it was problematic.</fn> asking for a king to serve as a judge when Shemuel was still judging the nation was an insult to his honor.<fn>Hoil Moshe points to an inconsistency&#160; in the nation's request which proves that their motives were not pure.&#160; The people complain about Shemuel's sons not following in his ways, but nonetheless ask specifically for a dynastic ruler where the same issue of an unfit son inheriting the position is likely!&#160; This proved to Shemuel that the people were simply looking to reject him and his family.</fn></li>
 
<li><b>Personal insult</b> – Rambam, Ramban, Malbim and Hoil Moshe assert that though the institution of monarchy in and of itself is fine,<fn>Rambam asserts that had they requested a monarch in order to fulfill the commandment, that would have been commended, but since they did so out of disgust with Shemuel and his family, it was problematic.</fn> asking for a king to serve as a judge when Shemuel was still judging the nation was an insult to his honor.<fn>Hoil Moshe points to an inconsistency&#160; in the nation's request which proves that their motives were not pure.&#160; The people complain about Shemuel's sons not following in his ways, but nonetheless ask specifically for a dynastic ruler where the same issue of an unfit son inheriting the position is likely!&#160; This proved to Shemuel that the people were simply looking to reject him and his family.</fn></li>
<li><b>General issue</b> – Ibn Kaspi and the Ran, in contrast, assert that the problem lay in combining the role of judge and monarch (and was not related to insulting Shemuel himself).&#160; The Ran points out how a king's tasks are political and military, while the judge's job is spiritual and necessitates having a Divine spark (ענין אלהי) which the monarch might be lacking. As such, the two positions were meant to remain distinct.<fn>Ibn Kapsi points out that in Torah these constitute two separate commandments, "שֹׁפְטִים וְשֹׁטְרִים תִּתֶּן לְךָ בְּכׇל שְׁעָרֶיךָ" (<a href="Devarim16-18-20" data-aht="source">Devarim 16</a>) and "שׂוֹם תָּשִׂים עָלֶיךָ מֶלֶךְ" (<a href="Devarim17-14" data-aht="source">Devarim 17</a>)</fn></li>
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<li><b>General issue</b> – Ibn Kaspi and the Ran, in contrast, assert that the problem lay in combining the role of judge and monarch (and was not related to insulting Shemuel himself).&#160; The Ran points out how a king's tasks are political and military, while the judge's job is spiritual and necessitates having a Divine spark (ענין אלהי) which the monarch might be lacking. As such, the two positions were meant to remain distinct.<fn>Ibn Kapsi points out that in Torah there are two separate commandments regarding these positions, "שֹׁפְטִים וְשֹׁטְרִים תִּתֶּן לְךָ בְּכׇל שְׁעָרֶיךָ" (<a href="Devarim16-18-20" data-aht="source">Devarim 16</a>) and "שׂוֹם תָּשִׂים עָלֶיךָ מֶלֶךְ" (<a href="Devarim17-14" data-aht="source">Devarim 17</a>)</fn></li>
 
</ul></point>
 
</ul></point>
<point><b>"כְּכָל הַגּוֹיִם"</b> – These sources see nothing wrong in the desire "to be like the nations". After all, in Devarim when Hashem speaks of appointing a king, He Himself says that the people will request a king "like all the nations".&#160; Moreover, if this was problematic either Shemuel or Hashem should have emphasized that aspect of the request in their speech.</point>
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<point><b>"כְּכָל הַגּוֹיִם"</b> – These sources see nothing wrong in the desire "to be like the nations". After all, in Devarim when Hashem speaks of appointing a king, He Himself says that the people will request a king "like all the nations".&#160; Moreover, if this was problematic either Shemuel or Hashem should have emphasized that aspect of the request in their speech.</point>
<point><b>Hashem's response: "כִּי אֹתִי מָאֲסוּ"</b> – Hashem's response to Shemuel "כִּי לֹא אֹתְךָ מָאָסוּ כִּי אֹתִי מָאֲסוּ" would seem to argue against this position as it suggests that Hashem does not see in the nation's request an affront to Shemuel.<fn>Hashem's response is not problematic for Ibn Kaspi and the Ran who assert that the problem with the people's request was not in their insulting Shemuel but in their desire for a king who would act in a judicial capacity. The Ran explains that Hashem is telling Shemuel that in asking for purely political ruler to take on a spiritual role, the people were denying the need for a "Divine spark" and thus rejecting Hashem.</fn><br/>
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<point><b>Hashem's response: "כִּי אֹתִי מָאֲסוּ"</b> – Hashem's response to Shemuel "כִּי לֹא אֹתְךָ מָאָסוּ כִּי אֹתִי מָאֲסוּ" would seem to go against most of these sources<fn>Hashem's response is not problematic for Ibn Kaspi and the Ran who assert that the problem with the people's request was not in their insulting Shemuel but in their desire for a king who would act in a judicial capacity. The Ran explains that Hashem is telling Shemuel that in asking for purely political ruler to take on a spiritual role, the people were denying the need for a "Divine spark" and thus rejecting Hashem.</fn> as it suggests that Hashem does not see in the nation's request an affront to Shemuel.<br/>
 
<ul>
 
<ul>
 
<li>The Hoil Moshe explains that Hashem isn't denying the insult, but comforting Shemuel by telling him that the people treat Hashem the same way, constantly turning away from Him and choosing idols in His place.&#160; Thus, Shemuel should not take it unduly to heart:&#160; "דיו לעבד שיהיה כרבו".&#160; Hoil Moshe further proves that Hashem isn't trying to say that Shemuel was not dishonored from His final words, "כֵּן הֵמָּה עֹשִׂים <b>גַּם לָךְ</b>".</li>
 
<li>The Hoil Moshe explains that Hashem isn't denying the insult, but comforting Shemuel by telling him that the people treat Hashem the same way, constantly turning away from Him and choosing idols in His place.&#160; Thus, Shemuel should not take it unduly to heart:&#160; "דיו לעבד שיהיה כרבו".&#160; Hoil Moshe further proves that Hashem isn't trying to say that Shemuel was not dishonored from His final words, "כֵּן הֵמָּה עֹשִׂים <b>גַּם לָךְ</b>".</li>
 
</ul></point>
 
</ul></point>
<point><b>Laws in Devarim</b> – Ibn Kaspi points out that since Devarim 16 and 17 speak of two distinct institutions, that of judges and that of kings, it is evident that an Israelite monarch was not supposed to serve in the judicial realm. Thus, had the people not asked that their king fulfill that task their request would have been met without resistance.</point>
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<point><b>Laws in Devarim</b> – Ibn Kaspi points out that since Devarim 16 and 17 speak of two distinct institutions, that of judges and that of kings, it is evident that an Israelite monarch was not supposed to serve in the judicial realm. Thus, had the people not asked that their king fulfill a judicial task, their request would have been met without resistance.</point>
<point><b>Shemuel's speech in chapter 12</b> – The first half of Shemuel's speech is devoted to Shemuel's insistence that he was always honest in his dealings with the nation.&#160; This focus supports the idea that Shemuel had felt that the people doubted his abilities and functioning as a shofet.</point>
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<point><b>Shemuel's speech in chapter 12</b> – The first half of Shemuel's speech is devoted to Shemuel's insistence that he was always honest in his dealings with the nation.&#160; This focus supports the idea that Shemuel had felt that the people doubted his abilities and functioning as a shofet.</point>
<point><b>Shemuel and Shaul</b></point>
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<point><b>Granting a king</b><ul>
<point><b>Granting a king</b> According to the Ran, after Shemeul's rebuke, the people changed their request, this time adding that the king must, "וְיָצָא לְפָנֵינוּ וְנִלְחַם אֶת מִלְחֲמֹתֵנוּ".&#160; Though they were not willing to forego</point>
+
<li>According to the Ran, after Shemeul's rebuke, the people changed their request, this time adding that the king must play a military role: "וְיָצָא לְפָנֵינוּ וְנִלְחַם אֶת מִלְחֲמֹתֵנוּ". Though they were not willing to totally forego a judge-king, they at least made concessions due to Shemuel's rebuke, and so Hashem granted their request.</li>
 +
<li>Hoil Moshe explains that Hashem granted the request since there was really nothing wrong with asking for a monarch.&#160; The people's sin was an interpersonal one, and relate donly to the manner in whcih they made their request.&#160; The content of the request was not problematic at all.</li>
 +
</ul></point>
 +
<point><b>Shemuel and Shaul</b></point>
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</opinion>
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<opinion> <mekorot>
 +
<multilink><a href="RambamHilkhotMelakhim1-2" data-aht="source">Rambam</a><a href="RambamHilkhotMelakhim1-2" data-aht="source">Hilkhot Melakhim 1:2</a><a href="R. Moshe b. Maimon (Rambam, Maimonides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe b. Maimon</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RambanBeresehit49-10" data-aht="source">Ramban</a><a href="RambanBeresehit49-10" data-aht="source">Beresehit 49:10</a><a href="R. Moshe b. Nachman (Ramban, Nachmanides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe b. Nachman</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RYosefibnKaspiShemuelI8-6" data-aht="source">R. Yosef ibn Kaspi</a><a href="RYosefibnKaspiShemuelI8-6" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 8:6</a><a href="R. Yosef ibn Kaspi" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yosef ibn Kaspi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="Ran11" data-aht="source">Ran</a><a href="Ran11" data-aht="source">Derashot HaRan 11</a><a href="R. Nissim Gerondi (Ran)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Nissim Gerondi</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="MalbimShemuelI8-6" data-aht="source">Malbim #2</a><a href="MalbimShemuelI8-6" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 8:6</a><a href="R. Meir Leibush Weiser (Malbim)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Meir Leibush Weiser</a></multilink>, Hoil Moshe
 +
</mekorot>
 +
<point><b>"לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ"</b> – These sources all pick up on the nation's request "שִׂימָה לָּנוּ מֶלֶךְ <b>לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ</b>", claiming that Shemuel is upset specifically by the people's request&#160; for a king who "will judge us."<fn><sup id="reffn9" class="fnRef mceNonEditable"><a class="ahtNonEditable" href="#fn9">9</a></sup></fn></point>
 +
<point><b>Shemuel's sons</b> – The fact that the people preface their request for a king with their complaints about Shemuel's sons not following in their father's way, supports the idea that their main desire in a king was to find a replacement for Shemuel in his capacity as judge.</point>
 +
<point><b>What is wrong with the request?</b><ul>
 +
<li><b>Personal insult</b> – Rambam, Ramban, Malbim and Hoil Moshe assert that though the institution of monarchy in and of itself is fine,<fn><sup id="reffn10" class="fnRef mceNonEditable"><a class="ahtNonEditable" href="#fn10">10</a></sup></fn> asking for a king to serve as a judge when Shemuel was still judging the nation was an insult to his honor.<fn><sup id="reffn11" class="fnRef mceNonEditable"><a class="ahtNonEditable" href="#fn11">11</a></sup></fn></li>
 +
<li><b>General issue</b> – Ibn Kaspi and the Ran, in contrast, assert that the problem lay in combining the role of judge and monarch (and was not related to insulting Shemuel himself).&#160; The Ran points out how a king's tasks are political and military, while the judge's job is spiritual and necessitates having a Divine spark (ענין אלהי) which the monarch might be lacking. As such, the two positions were meant to remain distinct.<fn><sup id="reffn12" class="fnRef mceNonEditable"><a class="ahtNonEditable" href="#fn12">12</a></sup></fn></li>
 +
</ul></point>
 +
<point><b>"כְּכָל הַגּוֹיִם"</b> – These sources see nothing wrong in the desire "to be like the nations". After all, in Devarim when Hashem speaks of appointing a king, He Himself says that the people will request a king "like all the nations".&#160; Moreover, if this was problematic either Shemuel or Hashem should have emphasized that aspect of the request in their speech.</point>
 +
<point><b>Hashem's response: "כִּי אֹתִי מָאֲסוּ"</b> – Hashem's response to Shemuel "כִּי לֹא אֹתְךָ מָאָסוּ כִּי אֹתִי מָאֲסוּ" would seem to go against most of these sources<fn><sup id="reffn13" class="fnRef mceNonEditable"><a class="ahtNonEditable" href="#fn13">13</a></sup></fn> as it suggests that Hashem does not see in the nation's request an affront to Shemuel.<br/>
 +
<ul>
 +
<li>The Hoil Moshe explains that Hashem isn't denying the insult, but comforting Shemuel by telling him that the people treat Hashem the same way, constantly turning away from Him and choosing idols in His place.&#160; Thus, Shemuel should not take it unduly to heart:&#160; "דיו לעבד שיהיה כרבו".&#160; Hoil Moshe further proves that Hashem isn't trying to say that Shemuel was not dishonored from His final words, "כֵּן הֵמָּה עֹשִׂים <b>גַּם לָךְ</b>".</li>
 +
</ul></point>
 +
<point><b>Laws in Devarim</b> – Ibn Kaspi points out that since Devarim 16 and 17 speak of two distinct institutions, that of judges and that of kings, it is evident that an Israelite monarch was not supposed to serve in the judicial realm. Thus, had the people not asked that their king fulfill a judicial task, their request would have been met without resistance.</point>
 +
<point><b>Shemuel's speech in chapter 12</b> – The first half of Shemuel's speech is devoted to Shemuel's insistence that he was always honest in his dealings with the nation.&#160; This focus supports the idea that Shemuel had felt that the people doubted his abilities and functioning as a shofet.</point>
 +
<point><b>Granting a king</b><ul>
 +
<li>According to the Ran, after Shemeul's rebuke, the people changed their request, this time adding that the king must play a military role: "וְיָצָא לְפָנֵינוּ וְנִלְחַם אֶת מִלְחֲמֹתֵנוּ". Though they were not willing to totally forego a judge-king, they at least made concessions due to Shemuel's rebuke, and so Hashem granted their request.</li>
 +
<li>Hoil Moshe explains that Hashem granted the request since there was really nothing wrong with asking for a monarch.&#160; The people's sin was an interpersonal one, and relate donly to the manner in whcih they made their request.&#160; The content of the request was not problematic at all.</li>
 +
</ul></point>
 +
<point><b>Shemuel and Shaul</b></point>
 +
</opinion>
 
</category>
 
</category>
 
<category>Rejection of Torah Law
 
<category>Rejection of Torah Law

Version as of 13:00, 21 November 2016

Problem With the King

Exegetical Approaches

This topic has not yet undergone editorial review

Rejection of Hashem for Human Military Leader

In requesting a human monarch to fight their wars, the people betrayed a lack of faith in and recognition of Hashem as their warrior and savior.

"וְיָצָא לְפָנֵינוּ וְנִלְחַם אֶת מִלְחֲמֹתֵנוּ" – Rashi and Radak point to these words of the nation as evidence that the people were not requesting a king who would serve a judicial purpose, but rather a military leader. They claim that this focus on the military aspect of the king's leadership is what troubled Hashem.
"שִׂימָה לָּנוּ מֶלֶךְ לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ" – One might argue that in their initial request, the people actually make no mention of any military role, but only a judicial one (לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ). Prof. Elitzur responds that the people were using the verb "שפט" in the military sense of the word,1 asking for a king who would serve as a שופט, like the leaders of the Book of Judges who were mainly saviors in war.
What is wrong with desiring a military leader?
  • Lack of trust – Radak asserts that the desire for a human warrior displays a lack of trust in Hashem to save the nation.
  • Attribution of success to self – In addition, having a king makes it likely that the people will attribute all their successes to their human leader,2 as opposed to Hashem.3 This, in turn, will result in their not even turning to Hashem for aid when needed, as they replace Him with their new king.4 
  • Misconception as to causes of war – Prof. Elitzur adds that the request betrays the people's lack of understanding that wars and troubles come as a result of sin.5  The solution was not to find a king, but rather to repent and return to God.6
"כְּכָל הַגּוֹיִם" – These sources differ in how they evaluate this choice of language:
  • Problematic – Radak suggests that the people should not have asked for a king "like all the other nations" since they were not like other nations.  As long as they observed Hashem's laws, Hashem would fight for them.  Thus unlike others, Israel really did not need a warrior-king.
  • Not problematic – Prof. Elitzur, in contrast, sees nothing wrong in this formulation pointing out that it is identical to Hashem's language in Devarim. In fact, the people of Shemuel's time might simply be echoing Hashem's own words.
"וַיֵּרַע הַדָּבָר בְּעֵינֵי שְׁמוּאֵל כַּאֲשֶׁר אָמְרוּ תְּנָה לָּנוּ מֶלֶךְ לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ" – This position could explain Shemuel's reaction in one of two ways:
  • It is possible that Shemuel understood the people correctly, (with "שפט" having a military connotation) and, like Hashem, was upset that the nation wanted to replace their old warrior, Hashem, with a new one.
  • Alternatively, it is possible that Shemuel misunderstood the people's request, understanding "לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ" in its judicial sense. He took their request as a personal affront, as he assumed that they found him lacking.
Hashem's response: "כִּי אֹתִי מָאֲסוּ" – According to the approach that Shemuel misunderstood the people's request, Hashem here corrects Shemuel's misconception and explains that the people's desire for a king is really a rejection of Hashem, not Shemuel.
Comparison to idolatry – Since the monarchy means that the people depend on their king rather than Hashem, it is similar to idolatry.7  It, too, will eventually lead the people to forsake Hashem.
"כֵּן הֵמָּה עֹשִׂים גַּם לָךְ" – According to Radak, in these words Hashem tells Shemuel that the people actually did rebel against the prophet as well, but in his military rather than judicial role.  Until now the prophet had led them in battle by bringing them back to Hashem.  In fact, he was so successful that they were hardly threatened by war anymore. Thus, in asking for a king, the people were rejecting both Hashem and Shemuel.
Laws in Devarim
  • Prof Elitzur claims that the Torah is not against monarchy per se, only against the hopes the people put into the change of regime.8
  • Alternatively, in Devarim Hashem is referring to a king whose primary role was not military in nature but judicial or spiritual. Such a monarch would not have been problematic, yet, even so, Hashem enacts laws to curb his power and remind him that he is subservient to Hashem.  Otherwise there is a fear that he will become haughty and see himself as a replacement for Hashem, leading him and the nation to depend on the monarch and not God.
Shemeul's speech when anointing Shaul – When Shemuel appoints Shaul as king, he reminds the people that it is Hashem, not their new king, who is their true savior:  "וְאַתֶּם הַיּוֹם מְאַסְתֶּם אֶת אֱלֹהֵיכֶם אֲשֶׁר הוּא מוֹשִׁיעַ לָכֶם מִכׇּל רָעוֹתֵיכֶם וְצָרֹתֵיכֶם וַתֹּאמְרוּ לוֹ כִּי מֶלֶךְ תָּשִׂים עָלֵינוּ" (Shemuel I 10:18-20). This further supports this position's understanding of the people's flawed request.
Shemuel's speech in Chapter 12 – Throughout his speech, Shemuel brings examples of how, in the past, when the Israelites found themselves in danger, they would cry out to Hashem, recognizing that they had sinned. This, he hints, is what they were supposed to do, not ask for a king. Similarly, Shemuel might intentionally bring a sign from non-seasonal rain since, in Torah, rain and the lack thereof is a barometer of the people's observance of Hashem's commandments and a reminder of our dependence upon Him.
Parallel to Gidon – After Gidon's victory over Midyan, the people make the same mistake they do here, requesting that Gidon lead them as king because "you saved us from Midyan".  Gidon refuses, teaching the nation: "לֹא אֶמְשֹׁל אֲנִי בָּכֶם וְלֹא יִמְשֹׁל בְּנִי בָּכֶם י"י יִמְשֹׁל בָּכֶם" (Shofetim 8:22-23).
Mishpat haMelekh
Granting a king – If Hashem thought that having a military-monarch was dangerous for the people spiritually, it is not clear why He agreed to the request.

Rejection of the Shofet

The people's desire for a king "to judge us" was problematic either because it usurped the institution of judges as a whole, or because it was a personal affront to Shemuel specifically.

Insult to Shemuel

"לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ" – These sources all pick up on the nation's request "שִׂימָה לָּנוּ מֶלֶךְ לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ", claiming that Shemuel is upset specifically by the people's request  for a king who "will judge us."9
Shemuel's sons – The fact that the people preface their request for a king with their complaints about Shemuel's sons not following in their father's way, supports the idea that their main desire in a king was to find a replacement for Shemuel in his capacity as judge.
What is wrong with the request?
  • Personal insult – Rambam, Ramban, Malbim and Hoil Moshe assert that though the institution of monarchy in and of itself is fine,10 asking for a king to serve as a judge when Shemuel was still judging the nation was an insult to his honor.11
  • General issue – Ibn Kaspi and the Ran, in contrast, assert that the problem lay in combining the role of judge and monarch (and was not related to insulting Shemuel himself).  The Ran points out how a king's tasks are political and military, while the judge's job is spiritual and necessitates having a Divine spark (ענין אלהי) which the monarch might be lacking. As such, the two positions were meant to remain distinct.12
"כְּכָל הַגּוֹיִם" – These sources see nothing wrong in the desire "to be like the nations". After all, in Devarim when Hashem speaks of appointing a king, He Himself says that the people will request a king "like all the nations".  Moreover, if this was problematic either Shemuel or Hashem should have emphasized that aspect of the request in their speech.
Hashem's response: "כִּי אֹתִי מָאֲסוּ" – Hashem's response to Shemuel "כִּי לֹא אֹתְךָ מָאָסוּ כִּי אֹתִי מָאֲסוּ" would seem to go against most of these sources13 as it suggests that Hashem does not see in the nation's request an affront to Shemuel.
  • The Hoil Moshe explains that Hashem isn't denying the insult, but comforting Shemuel by telling him that the people treat Hashem the same way, constantly turning away from Him and choosing idols in His place.  Thus, Shemuel should not take it unduly to heart:  "דיו לעבד שיהיה כרבו".  Hoil Moshe further proves that Hashem isn't trying to say that Shemuel was not dishonored from His final words, "כֵּן הֵמָּה עֹשִׂים גַּם לָךְ".
Laws in Devarim – Ibn Kaspi points out that since Devarim 16 and 17 speak of two distinct institutions, that of judges and that of kings, it is evident that an Israelite monarch was not supposed to serve in the judicial realm. Thus, had the people not asked that their king fulfill a judicial task, their request would have been met without resistance.
Shemuel's speech in chapter 12 – The first half of Shemuel's speech is devoted to Shemuel's insistence that he was always honest in his dealings with the nation.  This focus supports the idea that Shemuel had felt that the people doubted his abilities and functioning as a shofet.
Granting a king
  • According to the Ran, after Shemeul's rebuke, the people changed their request, this time adding that the king must play a military role: "וְיָצָא לְפָנֵינוּ וְנִלְחַם אֶת מִלְחֲמֹתֵנוּ". Though they were not willing to totally forego a judge-king, they at least made concessions due to Shemuel's rebuke, and so Hashem granted their request.
  • Hoil Moshe explains that Hashem granted the request since there was really nothing wrong with asking for a monarch.  The people's sin was an interpersonal one, and relate donly to the manner in whcih they made their request.  The content of the request was not problematic at all.
Shemuel and Shaul

"לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ" – These sources all pick up on the nation's request "שִׂימָה לָּנוּ מֶלֶךְ לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ", claiming that Shemuel is upset specifically by the people's request  for a king who "will judge us."14
Shemuel's sons – The fact that the people preface their request for a king with their complaints about Shemuel's sons not following in their father's way, supports the idea that their main desire in a king was to find a replacement for Shemuel in his capacity as judge.
What is wrong with the request?
  • Personal insult – Rambam, Ramban, Malbim and Hoil Moshe assert that though the institution of monarchy in and of itself is fine,15 asking for a king to serve as a judge when Shemuel was still judging the nation was an insult to his honor.16
  • General issue – Ibn Kaspi and the Ran, in contrast, assert that the problem lay in combining the role of judge and monarch (and was not related to insulting Shemuel himself).  The Ran points out how a king's tasks are political and military, while the judge's job is spiritual and necessitates having a Divine spark (ענין אלהי) which the monarch might be lacking. As such, the two positions were meant to remain distinct.17
"כְּכָל הַגּוֹיִם" – These sources see nothing wrong in the desire "to be like the nations". After all, in Devarim when Hashem speaks of appointing a king, He Himself says that the people will request a king "like all the nations".  Moreover, if this was problematic either Shemuel or Hashem should have emphasized that aspect of the request in their speech.
Hashem's response: "כִּי אֹתִי מָאֲסוּ" – Hashem's response to Shemuel "כִּי לֹא אֹתְךָ מָאָסוּ כִּי אֹתִי מָאֲסוּ" would seem to go against most of these sources18 as it suggests that Hashem does not see in the nation's request an affront to Shemuel.
  • The Hoil Moshe explains that Hashem isn't denying the insult, but comforting Shemuel by telling him that the people treat Hashem the same way, constantly turning away from Him and choosing idols in His place.  Thus, Shemuel should not take it unduly to heart:  "דיו לעבד שיהיה כרבו".  Hoil Moshe further proves that Hashem isn't trying to say that Shemuel was not dishonored from His final words, "כֵּן הֵמָּה עֹשִׂים גַּם לָךְ".
Laws in Devarim – Ibn Kaspi points out that since Devarim 16 and 17 speak of two distinct institutions, that of judges and that of kings, it is evident that an Israelite monarch was not supposed to serve in the judicial realm. Thus, had the people not asked that their king fulfill a judicial task, their request would have been met without resistance.
Shemuel's speech in chapter 12 – The first half of Shemuel's speech is devoted to Shemuel's insistence that he was always honest in his dealings with the nation.  This focus supports the idea that Shemuel had felt that the people doubted his abilities and functioning as a shofet.
Granting a king
  • According to the Ran, after Shemeul's rebuke, the people changed their request, this time adding that the king must play a military role: "וְיָצָא לְפָנֵינוּ וְנִלְחַם אֶת מִלְחֲמֹתֵנוּ". Though they were not willing to totally forego a judge-king, they at least made concessions due to Shemuel's rebuke, and so Hashem granted their request.
  • Hoil Moshe explains that Hashem granted the request since there was really nothing wrong with asking for a monarch.  The people's sin was an interpersonal one, and relate donly to the manner in whcih they made their request.  The content of the request was not problematic at all.
Shemuel and Shaul

Rejection of Torah Law

Hashem was upset by the people's request since they desired a king who would be like the other nations and not subject to the laws of Torah.

"כְּכָל הַגּוֹיִם"
"לְשׇׁפְטֵנוּ"
Shemuel's complaint
Hashem's response

Wrong Timing

Though there is nothing inherently wrong with the institution of monarchy, in this era of miraculous providence, there was no need for a king.