Difference between revisions of "Philosophy:Collective Punishment/2"

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<category>Even the Innocent Punished
 
<category>Even the Innocent Punished
 
<p>Sometimes Hashem collectively punishes the entire group and the innocent suffer together with the guilty.</p>
 
<p>Sometimes Hashem collectively punishes the entire group and the innocent suffer together with the guilty.</p>
<mekorot>R. Saadia Gaon, Ralbag, Abarbanel, Malbim, Netziv</mekorot>
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<mekorot><multilink><a href="RSaadiaGaonCommentaryBereshit6" data-aht="source">R. Saadia Gaon</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonCommentaryBereshit6" data-aht="source">Commentary Bereshit 6</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonCommentaryBereshit18" data-aht="source">Commentary Bereshit 18</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonCommentaryShemot30-11-15" data-aht="source">Commentary Shemot 30:11-15</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonCommentaryShemot32-1-6" data-aht="source">Commentary Shemot 32:1-6</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeot8" data-aht="source">HaEmunot VeHaDeot 8</a><a href="RSaadiaGaonHaEmunotVeHaDeot9" data-aht="source">HaEmunot VeHaDeot 9</a><a href="R. Saadia Gaon" data-aht="parshan">About R. Saadia Gaon</a></multilink>,&#160; <multilink><a href="RalbagYehoshua7-1" data-aht="source">Ralbag</a><a href="RalbagBereshitBeurHaParashah6-1-4" data-aht="source">Bereshit Beur HaParashah 6:1-4</a><a href="RalbagVayikra20-4-5" data-aht="source">Vayikra 20:4-5</a><a href="RalbagBemidbar16Toelet6" data-aht="source">Bemidbar 16 Toelet 6</a><a href="RalbagBemidbar16-32" data-aht="source">Bemidbar 16:32</a><a href="RalbagDevarim13-16" data-aht="source">Devarim 13:16</a><a href="RalbagYehoshua7-1" data-aht="source">Yehoshua 7:1</a><a href="RalbagYehoshua5-8Toelet11" data-aht="source">Yehoshua 5-8 Toelet 11</a><a href="R. Levi b. Gershom (Ralbag, Gersonides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Levi b. Gershom</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="AbarbanelYehoshua7-4-5" data-aht="source">Abarbanel</a><a href="AbarbanelShemot32" data-aht="source">Shemot 32</a><a href="AbarbanelBemidbar16" data-aht="source">Bemidbar 16</a><a href="AbarbanelBemidbar25-1" data-aht="source">Bemidbar 25:1</a><a href="AbarbanelYehoshua7-4-5" data-aht="source">Yehoshua 7:4-5</a><a href="R. Yitzchak Abarbanel" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yitzchak Abarbanel</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="MalbimBemidbar16-22" data-aht="source">Malbim</a><a href="MalbimBemidbar16-22" data-aht="source">Bemidbar 16:22</a><a href="MalbimYehoshua7-1" data-aht="source">Yehoshua 7:1</a><a href="R. Meir Leibush Weiser (Malbim)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Meir Leibush Weiser</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="NetzivBereshit6-9" data-aht="source">Netziv</a><a href="NetzivBereshit6-9" data-aht="source">Bereshit 6:9</a><a href="NetzivShemot11-4" data-aht="source">Shemot 11:4</a><a href="NetzivShemot12-29" data-aht="source">Shemot 12:29</a><a href="NetzivShemot32-26" data-aht="source">Shemot 32:26</a><a href="NetzivBemidbar14-35" data-aht="source">Bemidbar 14:35</a><a href="R. Naftali Tzvi Yehuda Berlin (Netziv)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Naftali Tzvi Yehuda Berlin</a></multilink></mekorot>
 
<point><b>Natural order or intentional?</b></point>
 
<point><b>Natural order or intentional?</b></point>
 
<point><b>Why is this justified?</b><ul>
 
<point><b>Why is this justified?</b><ul>
<li>Reward in world to come</li>
+
<li><b>Reward in world to come</b> – R. Saadia explains that if innocent people suffer in this world it it not unjust for they will receive compensation in the world to come.</li>
 
<li>One body</li>
 
<li>One body</li>
 
</ul></point>
 
</ul></point>

Version as of 07:41, 21 July 2015

Collective Punishment

Exegetical Approaches

This topic is currently in progress

Only the Sinners are Punished

Hashem only punishes the deserving and does not collectively punish anyone for someone else's crime.

Divine justice? This position is motivated by the understanding that justice demands that each person be punished for their own sins and not those of another.
Individual providence? This approach must maintain that Hashem watches over every being individually, and knows each of their actions so He can reward and punish each according to their deeds.
Reward and Punishment
Biblical Cases of Collective Punishment – These commentators try to explain away all the cases in Tanakh where there seems to be collective punishment by suggesting that in each instance the people who suffered were in fact guilty:
  • The flood – These sources assert that the entire world was destroyed in the flood because, with the exception of Noach, everyone, animals included, had sinned.1
  • Sedom – Rashi points out that the verse specifies that "כָּל הָעָם מִקָּצֶה" surrounded Lot's house, proving that there was not even one righteous man amongst them.2 R"Y Bekhor Shor adds that had there been, Hashem would have saved them individually;3 Avraham's complaint, "הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה צַדִּיק עִם רָשָׁע" was based on an erroneous understanding of Hashem's plan.4 
  • Plague of first-borns – Rashi explains that even the firstborns of maidservants and captives were killed because they, too, had enslaved the Israelites and were happy in their sorrow.
  • Sin of golden calf – According to Rashi, drawing off Bavli Yoma 66, Hashem plagued only those who were guilty or worshiping the calf but who had escaped punishment by the Levites on technical grounds that they had not been warned beforehand.
  • Sin of Spies – R"Y Bekhor Shor explains that only those of age to enter the military were punished because they were the ones who complained, being afraid to fight the Canaanites.
  • Moshe's discussion during Korach's rebellion – According to R. Yosef Bekhor Shor, Moshe mistakenly believed that Hashem planned to kill the innocent "congregation of Israel" , but in fact Hashem had really referred to the guilty  "congregration of Korach" alone. See Dialogue with the Divine During Korach's Rebellion for elaboration.
  • City of Idolaters
  • Achan and death of the 36 – This approach could explain either that the 36 men were accomplices to Achan, helping him to hide the booty or the like, or that they had sinned in some other capacity and were being punished for those crimes.
  • Plague in time of David – As the story opens with the fact that "וַיֹּסֶף אַף י"י לַחֲרוֹת בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל", these sources can easily explain that the nation had done something unconnected to David's deeds which had incurred the wrath of Hashem, and it was for this that they were plagued.5
What about babies? As it is difficult to say that infants or toddlers should be culpable for any sin, this approach must explain their deaths/punishments as being of a different nature, related to the principle of "פֹּקֵד עֲוֹן אָבֹת עַל בָּנִים", that children at times are punished for the sins of their parents.6  For a variety of approaches to this principle, see Are Children Punished for Parents' Sins?
Divine vs. human retribution – According to this approach, there is no difference between Divine and human retribution; collective punishment is never allowed.  As such, to explain the actions of Shimon and Levi, this position must either posit that the brothers were wrong,7 or that the rest of the city had somehow participated in the crime.  For elaboration and a discussion of the story, see Sin and Slaughter of Shekhem
Collective salvation

Slightly Guilty also Punished

When Hashem inflicts punishment, those who are totally innocent are never included.  However, individuals who are guilty by association, or culpable to even a small degree, might be included in the punishment of a worse sinner.

Sources:Bavli ShabbatShabbat 54b-55aAbout the Bavli, Radak, Rif on Yehoshua, Abarbanel on Korach

Even the Innocent Punished

Sometimes Hashem collectively punishes the entire group and the innocent suffer together with the guilty.

Natural order or intentional?
Why is this justified?
  • Reward in world to come – R. Saadia explains that if innocent people suffer in this world it it not unjust for they will receive compensation in the world to come.
  • One body
Individual providence?
Majority vs. minority of sinners?
Collective salvation?
Can humans also collectively punish?