Difference between revisions of "Philosophy:Collective Punishment/2"
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<category>Only the Sinners are Punished | <category>Only the Sinners are Punished | ||
<p>Hashem only punishes the deserving and does not collectively punish anyone for someone else's crime.</p> | <p>Hashem only punishes the deserving and does not collectively punish anyone for someone else's crime.</p> | ||
| − | <mekorot><multilink><a href="BavliSanhedrin108a" data-aht="source">Bavli Sanhedrin</a><a href="BavliSanhedrin108a" data-aht="source">Sanhedrin 108a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BereshitRabbah28-8" data-aht="source">Bereshit Rabbah</a><a href="BereshitRabbah28-8" data-aht="source">28:8</a><a href="Bereshit Rabbah" data-aht="parshan">About Bereshit Rabbah</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="TanchumaNoach5" data-aht="source">Tanchuma</a><a href="TanchumaNoach5" data-aht="source">Noach 5</a><a href="TanchumaKorach7" data-aht="source">Korach 7</a><a href="Tanchuma" data-aht="parshan">About the Tanchuma</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="TanchumaBuberNoach18" data-aht="source">Tanchuma (Buber)</a><a href="TanchumaBuberNoach18" data-aht="source">Noach 18</a><a href="Tanchuma" data-aht="parshan">About the Tanchuma</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RashiBemidbar16-22" data-aht="source">Rashi</a><a href="RashiBereshit6-7" data-aht="source">Bereshit 6:7</a><a href="RashiBereshit6-12" data-aht="source">Bereshit 6:12</a><a href="RashiBereshit19-4" data-aht="source">Bereshit 19:4</a><a href="RashiShemot12-29" data-aht="source">Shemot 12:29</a><a href="RashiShemot32-35" data-aht="source">Shemot 32:35</a><a href="RashiBemidbar16-22" data-aht="source">Bemidbar 16:22</a><a href="R. Shelomo Yitzchaki (Rashi)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Shelomo Yitzchaki</a></multilink>, R Yosef Bekhor Shor</mekorot> | + | <mekorot><multilink><a href="BavliSanhedrin108a" data-aht="source">Bavli Sanhedrin</a><a href="BavliSanhedrin108a" data-aht="source">Sanhedrin 108a</a><a href="Talmud Bavli" data-aht="parshan">About the Bavli</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BereshitRabbah28-8" data-aht="source">Bereshit Rabbah</a><a href="BereshitRabbah28-8" data-aht="source">28:8</a><a href="Bereshit Rabbah" data-aht="parshan">About Bereshit Rabbah</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="TanchumaNoach5" data-aht="source">Tanchuma</a><a href="TanchumaNoach5" data-aht="source">Noach 5</a><a href="TanchumaKorach7" data-aht="source">Korach 7</a><a href="Tanchuma" data-aht="parshan">About the Tanchuma</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="TanchumaBuberNoach18" data-aht="source">Tanchuma (Buber)</a><a href="TanchumaBuberNoach18" data-aht="source">Noach 18</a><a href="Tanchuma" data-aht="parshan">About the Tanchuma</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RashiBemidbar16-22" data-aht="source">Rashi</a><a href="RashiBereshit6-7" data-aht="source">Bereshit 6:7</a><a href="RashiBereshit6-12" data-aht="source">Bereshit 6:12</a><a href="RashiBereshit19-4" data-aht="source">Bereshit 19:4</a><a href="RashiShemot12-29" data-aht="source">Shemot 12:29</a><a href="RashiShemot32-35" data-aht="source">Shemot 32:35</a><a href="RashiBemidbar16-22" data-aht="source">Bemidbar 16:22</a><a href="R. Shelomo Yitzchaki (Rashi)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Shelomo Yitzchaki</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="RYosefBekhorShorBereshit6-912-13" data-aht="source">R Yosef Bekhor Shor</a><a href="RYosefBekhorShorBereshit6-912-13" data-aht="source">Bereshit 6:9,12-13</a><a href="RYosefBekhorShorBemidbar14-29" data-aht="source">Bemidbar 14:29</a><a href="RYosefBekhorShorBemidbar16-1922" data-aht="source">Bemidbar 16:19, 22</a><a href="R. Yosef Bekhor Shor" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yosef Bekhor Shor</a></multilink></mekorot> |
<point><b>Divine justice?</b> This position is motivated by the understanding that justice demands that each person be punished for their own crime and not that of another.</point> | <point><b>Divine justice?</b> This position is motivated by the understanding that justice demands that each person be punished for their own crime and not that of another.</point> | ||
<point><b>Individual providence?</b> This approach must maintain that Hashem watches over every being individually, and knows each of their actions so He can reward and punish each according to their deeds.</point> | <point><b>Individual providence?</b> This approach must maintain that Hashem watches over every being individually, and knows each of their actions so He can reward and punish each according to their deeds.</point> | ||
<point><b>Biblical Cases of Collective Punishment</b><ul> | <point><b>Biblical Cases of Collective Punishment</b><ul> | ||
| − | <li>The flood – These sources assert that the entire world was destroyed in the flood because, with the exception of Noach, everyone, animals included, had sinned.<fn>R"Y Bekhor Shor agrees that Noach was the only individual who walked uprightly, but explains the destruction of the world and animals differently.  Their demise was not due to their guilt but because their only purpose in creation was to serve man; thus, when mankind was destroyed so were they.  See <multilink><a href="BereshitRabbah28-6" data-aht="source">Bereshit Rabbah</a><a href="BereshitRabbah28-6" data-aht="source">28:6</a><a href="Bereshit Rabbah" data-aht="parshan">About Bereshit Rabbah</a></multilink>.</fn></li> | + | <li><b>The flood</b> – These sources assert that the entire world was destroyed in the flood because, with the exception of Noach, everyone, animals included, had sinned.<fn>R"Y Bekhor Shor agrees that Noach was the only individual who walked uprightly, but explains the destruction of the world and animals differently.  Their demise was not due to their guilt but because their only purpose in creation was to serve man; thus, when mankind was destroyed so were they.  See <multilink><a href="BereshitRabbah28-6" data-aht="source">Bereshit Rabbah</a><a href="BereshitRabbah28-6" data-aht="source">28:6</a><a href="Bereshit Rabbah" data-aht="parshan">About Bereshit Rabbah</a></multilink>.</fn></li> |
| + | <li><b>Sedom</b> – Rashi points out that the verse specifies that "כָּל הָעָם מִקָּצֶה" surrounded Lot's house, proving that there was not even one righteous man amongst them.<fn>See similalry Ibn Ezra who understands Hashem's words "וְאֶרְאֶה הַכְּצַעֲקָתָהּ הַבָּאָה אֵלַי עָשׂוּ <b>כָּלָה</b>" to mean that Hashem was to check if <b>all</b> of Sedom's inhabitants had done evil.</fn> R"Y Bekhor Shor asserts that had there been, Hashem would have saved them individually.<fn>Hashem was not willing to save the wicked if there were fewer than ten righteous in the city, but He would have still saved the righteous themselves.</fn></li> | ||
</ul></point> | </ul></point> | ||
<point><b>Sedom</b></point> | <point><b>Sedom</b></point> | ||
Version as of 12:42, 20 July 2015
Collective Punishment
Exegetical Approaches
Only the Sinners are Punished
Hashem only punishes the deserving and does not collectively punish anyone for someone else's crime.
Divine justice? This position is motivated by the understanding that justice demands that each person be punished for their own crime and not that of another.
Individual providence? This approach must maintain that Hashem watches over every being individually, and knows each of their actions so He can reward and punish each according to their deeds.
Biblical Cases of Collective Punishment
- The flood – These sources assert that the entire world was destroyed in the flood because, with the exception of Noach, everyone, animals included, had sinned.1
- Sedom – Rashi points out that the verse specifies that "כָּל הָעָם מִקָּצֶה" surrounded Lot's house, proving that there was not even one righteous man amongst them.2 R"Y Bekhor Shor asserts that had there been, Hashem would have saved them individually.3
Sedom
Plague of first-borns
Sin of golden calf and spies
Ir Nidachat
Achan and death of the 37
Plague in time of David
What about babies?
Slightly Guilty also Punished
When Hashem inflicts punishment, those who are totally innocent are never included. However, individuals who are guilty by association, or culpable to even a small degree, might be included in the punishment of a worse sinner.
Sources:Bavli Shabbat, Radak, Rif on Yehoshua, Abarbanel on Korach
Even the Innocent Punished
Sometimes Hashem collectively punishes the entire group and the innocent suffer together with the guilty.
Sources:R. Saadia Gaon, Ralbag, Abarbanel, Malbim, Netziv
Why is this justified?
Individual providence?
Majority vs. minority of sinners?
Collective salvation?
Can humans also collectively punish?
