Difference between revisions of "Prohibition of Ov and Yideoni/2"

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<h1>Prohibition of Ov and Yideoni</h1>
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<div><b><center><span class="highlighted-notice">This topic is currently in progress</span></center></b></div>
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<approaches>
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<category name="">Idolatry – Works
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<mekorot><multilink><a href="RashbamShemot32-4" data-aht="source">Rashbam</a><a href="RashbamShemot32-4" data-aht="source">Shemot 32:4</a><a href="RashbamDevarim5-7" data-aht="source">Devarim 5:7</a><a href="RashbamDevarim13-3-4" data-aht="source">Devarim 13:3-4</a><a href="RashbamDevarim18-12-13" data-aht="source">Devarim 18:12-13</a><a href="R. Shemuel b. Meir (Rashbam)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Shemuel b. Meir</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="AbarbanelDevarim18-9-13" data-aht="source">Abarbanel #2</a><a href="AbarbanelDevarim18-9-13" data-aht="source">Devarim 18:9-13</a><a href="R. Yitzchak Abarbanel" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yitzchak Abarbanel</a></multilink><fn>This is Abarbanel's explanation in Devarim 18. See below for his two other explanations in Vayikra 19 and 20.</fn></mekorot>
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<point><b>What is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי?</b> According to Rashbam, אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי are a form of divination powered by "רוח הטומאה". Abarbanel, based on Bavli Sanhedrin 65b, explains that the אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי in Vayikra 19:6 tell the future using the dead: the אוֹב raises the dead from their armpit,<fn>Note, however, that in his commentary to Shemuel I 28, Abarbanel understands that a בַּעֲלַת אוֹב raises the actual body (but not the soul) of the dead person requested from the ground, and then, using a demon, makes it speak.</fn> and the יִדְּעֹנִי places a bone in his mouth and the bone speaks.</point>
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<point><b>Do אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי actually work?</b> Yes. Rashbam maintains that "רוח הטומאה" exists, and אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי can actually tell the future.</point>
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<point><b>Why is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי prohibited?</b> According to Rashbam, idolatry itself is just confusion between "רוח הטומאה" and "רוח הקדש", and therefore usage of "רוח הטומאה" would violate the prohibition of idolatry. In contrast, Abarbanel does not state that אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי are a direct violation of the rules against idolatry, and views the prohibition as merely part of the prohibition of "דרכי האמורי" (the ways of the Emorite). This explanation is based on the context in Devarim 18, which speaks of "תוֹעֲבֹת הַגּוֹיִם" (the abominations of the nations).</point>
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<point><b>Raising of Shemuel</b> – According to this approach, אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי have power, and it is clear how a בַּעֲלַת אוֹב could have raised Shemuel from the dead.</point>
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<point><b>Other forms of magic</b> – According to Rashbam, the other forms of magic, such as תרפים, כשפים, מעונן, and מנחש, are all forms of divination powered by רוח הטומאה.</point>
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</category>
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<category name="">Idolatry – Does Not Work
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<mekorot><multilink><a href="RambamMorehNevukhim3-37" data-aht="source">Rambam</a><a href="RambamHilchotAvodahZarah6-1-2" data-aht="source">Hilchot Avodah Zarah 6:1-2</a><a href="RambamMorehNevukhim3-37" data-aht="source">Moreh Nevukhim 3:37</a><a href="R. Moshe b. Maimon (Rambam, Maimonides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe b. Maimon</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="ResponsaofRAvrahambHaRambam27" data-aht="source">R. Avraham b. HaRambam</a><a href="ResponsaofRAvrahambHaRambam27" data-aht="source">Responsa 27</a></multilink></mekorot>
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<point><b>What is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי?</b> According to the Rambam, in the אוֹב ritual one burns incense, waives a myrtle wand, and speaks an incantation, and then one hears low voices which seem to come from the ground, or one burns incense in front of a skull until one hears low voices from one's chest. Similarly, in the יִדְּעֹנִי ritual, one places the bone of a "ידוע" bird in one's mouth, and then performs an enchantment until one starts to speak the future.</point>
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<point><b>Do אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי actually work?</b> No. The voices heard in these idolatrous rituals are only hallucinations, and, similarly to the results of other idolatrous rituals, have no power or meaning.</point>
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<point><b>Why is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי prohibited?</b> According to the Rambam, the practices of אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי are idolatrous rituals and prohibited as part of the prohibition of idolatry.</point>
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<point><b>Raising of Shemuel</b> – According to R. Avraham b. HaRambam, Shemuel did not rise from the dead, and all Shaul saw was an illusion or hallucination.<fn>It is possible that R. Avraham b. HaRambam agrees with Ralbag below, and understands that the אוֹב ritual, which induces a dream-like trance, allowed Shaul to receive a minor form of prophecy, but he does not say so explicitly.</fn></point>
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<point><b>Other forms of magic</b> – According to the Rambam in Hilkhot Avodah Zarah 11, the other forms of magic mentioned in Devarim 18 are forms of divination, just like אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי, and just like אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי, they are nonsense, and are prohibited as a form of idolatry.</point>
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</category>
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<category name="">Goes Against Nature
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<mekorot><multilink><a href="RambanDevarim18-9" data-aht="source">Ramban</a><a href="RambanDevarim18-9" data-aht="source">Devarim 18:9</a><a href="R. Moshe b. Nachman (Ramban, Nachmanides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe b. Nachman</a></multilink></mekorot>
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<point><b>What is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי?</b> Ramban does not give details regarding the אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי rituals, but it clear that they are a form of magic, using the power of the constellations to tell the future.</point>
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<point><b>Do אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי actually work?</b> Yes. The practitioners of אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי abuse the power of the constellations, allowing them to learn the future.</point>
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<point><b>Why is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי prohibited?</b> Ramban states that using the constellations is prohibited because it goes against nature and the natural way of things.</point>
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<point><b>Raising of Shemuel</b> – According to this approach, אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי have power, and it is clear how a בַּעֲלַת אוֹב could have raised Shemuel from the dead.</point>
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<point><b>Other forms of magic</b> – Ramban understands all of the various forms of magic to be an abuse of the power of the constellations, either for divination or for changing the future.</point>
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</category>
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<category name="">Causes Bad Beliefs
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<mekorot><multilink><a href="RalbagVayikra19-31" data-aht="source">Ralbag</a><a href="RalbagVayikra19-31" data-aht="source">Vayikra 19:31</a><a href="RalbagShemuelI28-8" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 28:8</a><a href="RalbagShemuelI28-19" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 28:19</a><a href="RalbagToalotVayikra19" data-aht="source">Toalot Vayikra 19</a><a href="RalbagToalotDevarim18-19" data-aht="source">Toalot Devarim 18-19</a><a href="R. Levi b. Gershom (Ralbag, Gersonides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Levi b. Gershom</a></multilink></mekorot>
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<point><b>What is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי?</b> According to Ralbag, the אוֹב ritual (which may involve the skull of the dead man) causes one to hear a low voice, attributed to dead man. Similarly, the יִדְּעֹנִי places the bone of the "ידוע" bird in their mouth, which allows them to speak the future.</point>
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<point><b>Do אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי actually work?</b> Yes and No. The practitioners of אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי enter a meditative state, where they hallucinate and believe they see and hear the dead (although no such thing has happened).<fn>Cf. R. Avraham b. HaRambam above, who has a similar understanding of the&#160;אוֹב ritual.</fn> Meanwhile, this meditation allows them to actually learn the future (through other means, such as prophecy, magic, or dreams).</point>
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<point><b>Why is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי prohibited?</b> According to Ralbag, following the אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי causes one to believe that the dead have power to tell the future, instead of all prophecies coming from the "שכל הפועל". To prevent such confusion, the אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי practice is prohibited.</point>
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<point><b>Raising of Shemuel</b> – According to Ralbag, Shaul had some prophetic power,<fn>See Shemuel I 10:10-12, 19:20-24.</fn> and when he entered the meditative state caused by the בַּעֲלַת אוֹב, he received the prophecy telling of his death. However, the vision of Shemuel was a figment of Shaul and the בַּעֲלַת אוֹב's imagination.</point>
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<point><b>Other forms of magic</b> – According to Ralbag, most other forms of magic are totally fake, and are prohibited because of that.</point>
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</category>
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<category name="">Ritual Impurity
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<mekorot><multilink><a href="AbarbanelVayikra19-31-32" data-aht="source">Abarbanel #1</a><a href="AbarbanelVayikra19-31-32" data-aht="source">Vayikra 19:31-32</a><a href="R. Yitzchak Abarbanel" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yitzchak Abarbanel</a></multilink><fn>Abarbanel differentiates between "אַל תִּפְנוּ אֶל הָאֹבֹת וְאֶל הַיִּדְּעֹנִים" and "וְאִישׁ אוֹ אִשָּׁה כִּי יִהְיֶה בָהֶם אוֹב אוֹ יִדְּעֹנִי", the first referring to those who turn and ask the אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי, the second to those who claim to hold the spirit of the אוֹב or יִדְּעֹנִי within them. According to Abarbanel, this approach only explains the former. Note also that in Devarim, Abarbanel gives an alternate explanation (see above).</fn></mekorot>
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<point><b>What is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי?</b> According to Abarbanel, אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי are rituals which use human or non-kosher animal bones.</point>
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<point><b>Do אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי actually work?</b> Abarbanel in Vayikra 19 is not explicit regarding the capabilities of אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי.</point>
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<point><b>Why is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי prohibited?</b> Abarbanel proves from the words "לְטׇמְאָה בָהֶם" that the prohibition is due to the ritual impurity of the bones.</point>
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<point><b>Raising of Shemuel</b> – Abarbanel does not comment here regarding the story of the raising of Shemuel.</point>
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<point><b>Other forms of magic</b></point>
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</category>
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</approaches>
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</page>
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Latest revision as of 08:11, 29 May 2015

Prohibition of Ov and Yideoni

Exegetical Approaches

This topic is currently in progress

Idolatry – Works

What is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי? According to Rashbam, אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי are a form of divination powered by "רוח הטומאה". Abarbanel, based on Bavli Sanhedrin 65b, explains that the אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי in Vayikra 19:6 tell the future using the dead: the אוֹב raises the dead from their armpit,2 and the יִדְּעֹנִי places a bone in his mouth and the bone speaks.
Do אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי actually work? Yes. Rashbam maintains that "רוח הטומאה" exists, and אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי can actually tell the future.
Why is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי prohibited? According to Rashbam, idolatry itself is just confusion between "רוח הטומאה" and "רוח הקדש", and therefore usage of "רוח הטומאה" would violate the prohibition of idolatry. In contrast, Abarbanel does not state that אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי are a direct violation of the rules against idolatry, and views the prohibition as merely part of the prohibition of "דרכי האמורי" (the ways of the Emorite). This explanation is based on the context in Devarim 18, which speaks of "תוֹעֲבֹת הַגּוֹיִם" (the abominations of the nations).
Raising of Shemuel – According to this approach, אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי have power, and it is clear how a בַּעֲלַת אוֹב could have raised Shemuel from the dead.
Other forms of magic – According to Rashbam, the other forms of magic, such as תרפים, כשפים, מעונן, and מנחש, are all forms of divination powered by רוח הטומאה.

Idolatry – Does Not Work

What is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי? According to the Rambam, in the אוֹב ritual one burns incense, waives a myrtle wand, and speaks an incantation, and then one hears low voices which seem to come from the ground, or one burns incense in front of a skull until one hears low voices from one's chest. Similarly, in the יִדְּעֹנִי ritual, one places the bone of a "ידוע" bird in one's mouth, and then performs an enchantment until one starts to speak the future.
Do אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי actually work? No. The voices heard in these idolatrous rituals are only hallucinations, and, similarly to the results of other idolatrous rituals, have no power or meaning.
Why is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי prohibited? According to the Rambam, the practices of אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי are idolatrous rituals and prohibited as part of the prohibition of idolatry.
Raising of Shemuel – According to R. Avraham b. HaRambam, Shemuel did not rise from the dead, and all Shaul saw was an illusion or hallucination.3
Other forms of magic – According to the Rambam in Hilkhot Avodah Zarah 11, the other forms of magic mentioned in Devarim 18 are forms of divination, just like אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי, and just like אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי, they are nonsense, and are prohibited as a form of idolatry.

Goes Against Nature

What is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי? Ramban does not give details regarding the אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי rituals, but it clear that they are a form of magic, using the power of the constellations to tell the future.
Do אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי actually work? Yes. The practitioners of אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי abuse the power of the constellations, allowing them to learn the future.
Why is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי prohibited? Ramban states that using the constellations is prohibited because it goes against nature and the natural way of things.
Raising of Shemuel – According to this approach, אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי have power, and it is clear how a בַּעֲלַת אוֹב could have raised Shemuel from the dead.
Other forms of magic – Ramban understands all of the various forms of magic to be an abuse of the power of the constellations, either for divination or for changing the future.

Causes Bad Beliefs

What is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי? According to Ralbag, the אוֹב ritual (which may involve the skull of the dead man) causes one to hear a low voice, attributed to dead man. Similarly, the יִדְּעֹנִי places the bone of the "ידוע" bird in their mouth, which allows them to speak the future.
Do אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי actually work? Yes and No. The practitioners of אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי enter a meditative state, where they hallucinate and believe they see and hear the dead (although no such thing has happened).4 Meanwhile, this meditation allows them to actually learn the future (through other means, such as prophecy, magic, or dreams).
Why is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי prohibited? According to Ralbag, following the אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי causes one to believe that the dead have power to tell the future, instead of all prophecies coming from the "שכל הפועל". To prevent such confusion, the אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי practice is prohibited.
Raising of Shemuel – According to Ralbag, Shaul had some prophetic power,5 and when he entered the meditative state caused by the בַּעֲלַת אוֹב, he received the prophecy telling of his death. However, the vision of Shemuel was a figment of Shaul and the בַּעֲלַת אוֹב's imagination.
Other forms of magic – According to Ralbag, most other forms of magic are totally fake, and are prohibited because of that.

Ritual Impurity

What is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי? According to Abarbanel, אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי are rituals which use human or non-kosher animal bones.
Do אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי actually work? Abarbanel in Vayikra 19 is not explicit regarding the capabilities of אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי.
Why is אוֹב and יִדְּעֹנִי prohibited? Abarbanel proves from the words "לְטׇמְאָה בָהֶם" that the prohibition is due to the ritual impurity of the bones.
Raising of Shemuel – Abarbanel does not comment here regarding the story of the raising of Shemuel.
Other forms of magic