Difference between revisions of "Shas:Witnesses for Repayment of Debt/2"
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<point><b>Rav Papa's Halakhic Conclusion</b> – According to Ran, Rav Papa's conclusion is that the debtor must bring witnesses, but if the he claims to have witnesses overseas, he is believed. This conclusion matches Rav Asi, since according to Shemuel there is no need whatsoever for witnesses. Additionally, the Ran finds the Gemara's explanations of Shemuel's position unsatisfactory, further contributing to his view that the halakha follows Rav Asi.</point> | <point><b>Rav Papa's Halakhic Conclusion</b> – According to Ran, Rav Papa's conclusion is that the debtor must bring witnesses, but if the he claims to have witnesses overseas, he is believed. This conclusion matches Rav Asi, since according to Shemuel there is no need whatsoever for witnesses. Additionally, the Ran finds the Gemara's explanations of Shemuel's position unsatisfactory, further contributing to his view that the halakha follows Rav Asi.</point> | ||
<point><b>Rava and Abayei's Dispute</b> – According to Ran, both Rava and Abayei agree that the demands of the creditor have no legal validity, and thus should the debtor actually bring these other witnesses, not named by the creditor, before the court, the court would believe the witnesses. The dispute between Rava and Abayei is only with regards to cases where the debtor claims to have witnesses but they are unavailable. According to Abayei, the debtor does not view the creditor's demands as exclusive, and it is believable that he may find alternative witnesses. In contrast, Rava states that the debtor will understand the creditor's demands to specifically contraindicate any witnesses besides those named, and he is not believed if he does not claim to have repaid before those specific witnesses.</point> | <point><b>Rava and Abayei's Dispute</b> – According to Ran, both Rava and Abayei agree that the demands of the creditor have no legal validity, and thus should the debtor actually bring these other witnesses, not named by the creditor, before the court, the court would believe the witnesses. The dispute between Rava and Abayei is only with regards to cases where the debtor claims to have witnesses but they are unavailable. According to Abayei, the debtor does not view the creditor's demands as exclusive, and it is believable that he may find alternative witnesses. In contrast, Rava states that the debtor will understand the creditor's demands to specifically contraindicate any witnesses besides those named, and he is not believed if he does not claim to have repaid before those specific witnesses.</point> | ||
+ | <point><b>Rav Nachman's Ruling</b></point> | ||
+ | <point><b>Types of Unavailable Witnesses</b> – According to Ran, as long as the debtor claims he paid before witnesses, he is believed, no matter why the witnesses are unavailable: them being dead or his not knowing their names are just likely to have happened as them being in a foreign country (and thus are just as believable, despite the inability to check the debtor's claims in the future).</point> | ||
+ | <point><b>Textual Issues</b><ul> | ||
+ | <li><b>Question on Shemuel</b> – The Ran had the version printed in our Gemara, although he was familiar with the alternative version. Thus, he has no reason to say that Shemuel must agree that if the debtor does not claim the existence of witnesses, he is not believed.</li> | ||
+ | <li><b>Rav Papa's Psak</b> – The Ran states that the version before him (and before the Rambam) was that if the debtor claims to have witnesses overseas, he is believed.</li> | ||
+ | </ul></point> | ||
+ | <point><b>Halakhic Conclusion</b> – According to this approach, the creditor may warn the debtor to repay him before witnesses, or even before specific witnesses, but this warning is not binding on the debtor, and he may repay without witnesses. The warning is only relevant if the creditor disputes receiving his payment, in which case, if the debtor claims he did not follow the debtor's instructions, his claim (alone) is not believed. If he brings witnesses that he repaid, or claims he followed instructions (even without witnesses he did so), he is believed.</point> | ||
</category> | </category> | ||
</approaches> | </approaches> | ||
</page> | </page> | ||
</aht-xml> | </aht-xml> |
Version as of 07:45, 23 December 2018
Witnesses for Repayment of Debt
Exegetical Approaches
The Creditor Can Change the Details of the Loan
Under certain circumstances, the agreement between the creditor and debtor allows the creditor to change certain details regarding the loan.
The Creditor Can Change the Rules of Believability for the Loan
Under certain circumstances, the agreement between the creditor and debtor allows the creditor to change who the court can believe, causing the court to ignore the claims of the debtor, and possibly even ignore witnesses.
The Creditor Can Change the Rules of Repayment for the Loan
Under certain circumstances, the agreement between the creditor and debtor allows the creditor to change how the loan may be repaid, requiring the debtor to repay the loan before witnesses. If the debtor claims he failed to abide the repayment requirements, his claim is flawed and not believed.
The Parties Can Add An Additional Obligation
Under certain circumstances, the parties may come to an mutual agreement, not part of the original loan, which will impose certain costs on the parties. This agreement would require the debtor to pay the sum of the loan should he fail to abide by certain terms (such as proving his repayment in court via witnesses), despite the court absolving him of his debt.
The Creditor Can Change the Psychology of the Debtor
None of the creditor's actions have any legal significance beyond the original debt agreement. However, under certain circumstances, the creditor's actions may frighten the debtor, causing any claim of repayment without witnesses to be immediately suspect.
- Rav Asi – According to Ran, Rav Asi's original statement did not refer to a legal obligation to repay the loan before witnesses, but rather a psychological need to do so (caused by fear that the creditor may deny receiving the payment). If the loan occurred before witnesses, and the debtor claims to have repaid without witnesses, this unlikely claim is not believed.
- Shemuel – According to Ran, Shemuel agrees that this claim is unlikely by itself, but states that if the debtor claims he repaid the loan before witnesses, but that those witnesses are unavailable, he is believed. Thus, even when claiming that he repaid without witnesses, the debtor is believed, since he could have stated (מיגו) that he had witnesses, but they are unavailable.
- Rav Asi's Answer to the Mishna – According to this approach, Rav Asi differentiates between a loan before witnesses (where the creditor shows his distrust and the debtor becomes afraid) and a simple statement of liability (which will not cause the debtor to become afraid).
- Rav Asi – According to Ran, while Rav Asi admits that the simple existence of witnesses during the loan is not enough to frighten the debtor into repaying with witnesses, an explicit warning from the creditor would frighten the debtor. Therefore, if the debtor was warned to repay before witnesses, chances are he would not have repaid alone, and is not believed when making such a claim.
- Shemuel – According to Ran, Shemuel makes the same argument as he made in the first rendition. If the debtor claims he repaid before witnesses who are currently unavailable, he is believed, and therefore he is believed even when claiming there were no witnesses, due to מיגו.
- Question on Shemuel – According to the Ran, since Shemuel believes the debtor even when he claims there were no witnesses, he is in direct contradiction to the Baraita which states that the debtor is not believed without witnesses.
- Question on Shemuel – The Ran had the version printed in our Gemara, although he was familiar with the alternative version. Thus, he has no reason to say that Shemuel must agree that if the debtor does not claim the existence of witnesses, he is not believed.
- Rav Papa's Psak – The Ran states that the version before him (and before the Rambam) was that if the debtor claims to have witnesses overseas, he is believed.