Difference between revisions of "Shaul's Sin in the Battle with Amalek/2"

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<page type="Approaches">
 
<page type="Approaches">
 
<h1>Shaul Loses the Kingship</h1>
 
<h1>Shaul Loses the Kingship</h1>
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<div><b><center><span class="highlighted-notice">This topic has not yet undergone editorial review</span></center></b></div>
  
 
<approaches>
 
<approaches>
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<point><b>Severity of the sin:</b><ul>
 
<point><b>Severity of the sin:</b><ul>
 
<li>Shaul thought he was more just than Hashem&#160;– Bavli Yoma and Yalkut Shimoni suggest that Shahul thought he could decide who needs to be punished or saved on his own, leading to his extra mercy here but extreme cruelty in Nov.</li>
 
<li>Shaul thought he was more just than Hashem&#160;– Bavli Yoma and Yalkut Shimoni suggest that Shahul thought he could decide who needs to be punished or saved on his own, leading to his extra mercy here but extreme cruelty in Nov.</li>
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</ul>
 
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<ul>
 
 
<li>Consequences of deed – Bavli Megillah says that had Agag been killed immediately Haman would have never been born, suggesting that that was the problem.</li>
 
<li>Consequences of deed – Bavli Megillah says that had Agag been killed immediately Haman would have never been born, suggesting that that was the problem.</li>
 
<li>Shaul simply did not listen to Hashem's commandment.&#160; Hashem said to destroy all of Amalek so leaving over even just one person violated the directive.</li>
 
<li>Shaul simply did not listen to Hashem's commandment.&#160; Hashem said to destroy all of Amalek so leaving over even just one person violated the directive.</li>
 
</ul></point>
 
</ul></point>
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<point><b>What was included in the command?</b></point>
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<point><b>Purpose of the war</b></point>
 +
<point><b>"וַתַּעַט אֶל הַשָּׁלָל"</b> – This position is missing from the text, as Shemuel rebukes in verses 14, 19, and 22-23 about the spoils that were left, and does not mention a word about keeping Agag alive.&#160; In addition, Shaul announces that he kept Hashem's words and brought Agag which would be a great insolence if that was the sin.&#160; The only hint to such a sin is in verses 32-33 where Shemuel kills Agag, and even that can be understood as a demonstration that Hashem won the battle and not Shaul.</point>
 
<point><b>"כִּי חַטַּאת קֶסֶם מֶרִי וְאָוֶן וּתְרָפִים הַפְצַר"</b></point>
 
<point><b>"כִּי חַטַּאת קֶסֶם מֶרִי וְאָוֶן וּתְרָפִים הַפְצַר"</b></point>
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<point><b>"וַתַּעַט אֶל הַשָּׁלָל"</b></point>
 
−
<point><b>"וּמֶה קוֹל הַצֹּאן הַזֶּה בְּאׇזְנָי"</b></point>
 
 
<point><b>David's battle with Amalek</b></point>
 
<point><b>David's battle with Amalek</b></point>
 +
<point><b>Shaul vs. David</b></point>
 
</category>
 
</category>
 
<category>Did Not Consecrate the Spoils
 
<category>Did Not Consecrate the Spoils
 
<mekorot><multilink><a href="RadakShemuelI15-3" data-aht="source">Radak</a><a href="RadakShemuelI15-3" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:3</a><a href="RadakShemuelI15-12" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:12</a><a href="RadakShemuelI15-15" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:15</a><a href="RadakShemuelI15-17" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:17</a><a href="RadakShemuelI15-23" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:23</a><a href="R. David Kimchi (Radak)" data-aht="parshan">About R. David Kimchi</a></multilink>,&#160;<multilink><a href="RalbagShemuelI15-6-9" data-aht="source">Ralbag</a><a href="RalbagShemuelI15-6-9" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:6-23</a><a href="R. Levi b. Gershom (Ralbag, Gersonides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Levi b. Gershom</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI15-1" data-aht="source">Abarbanel</a><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI14Q2-4" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 14, Questions 2-4</a><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI15-1" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:1</a><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI15-14-15" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:14-15</a><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI15-23" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:23</a><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI15-26" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:26</a><a href="R. Yitzchak Abarbanel" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yitzchak Abarbanel</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BiurShemuelI15-23" data-aht="source">Biur</a><a href="BiurShemuelI15-23" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:23</a><a href="Biur (Netivot HaShalom)" data-aht="parshan">About the Biur (Netivot HaShalom)</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="MalbimShemuelI15-4-5" data-aht="source">Malbim</a><a href="MalbimShemuelI15-4-5" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:4-5</a><a href="R. Meir Leibush Weiser (Malbim)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Meir Leibush Weiser</a></multilink></mekorot>
 
<mekorot><multilink><a href="RadakShemuelI15-3" data-aht="source">Radak</a><a href="RadakShemuelI15-3" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:3</a><a href="RadakShemuelI15-12" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:12</a><a href="RadakShemuelI15-15" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:15</a><a href="RadakShemuelI15-17" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:17</a><a href="RadakShemuelI15-23" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:23</a><a href="R. David Kimchi (Radak)" data-aht="parshan">About R. David Kimchi</a></multilink>,&#160;<multilink><a href="RalbagShemuelI15-6-9" data-aht="source">Ralbag</a><a href="RalbagShemuelI15-6-9" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:6-23</a><a href="R. Levi b. Gershom (Ralbag, Gersonides)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Levi b. Gershom</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI15-1" data-aht="source">Abarbanel</a><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI14Q2-4" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 14, Questions 2-4</a><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI15-1" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:1</a><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI15-14-15" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:14-15</a><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI15-23" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:23</a><a href="AbarbanelShemuelI15-26" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:26</a><a href="R. Yitzchak Abarbanel" data-aht="parshan">About R. Yitzchak Abarbanel</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="BiurShemuelI15-23" data-aht="source">Biur</a><a href="BiurShemuelI15-23" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:23</a><a href="Biur (Netivot HaShalom)" data-aht="parshan">About the Biur (Netivot HaShalom)</a></multilink>, <multilink><a href="MalbimShemuelI15-4-5" data-aht="source">Malbim</a><a href="MalbimShemuelI15-4-5" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:4-5</a><a href="R. Meir Leibush Weiser (Malbim)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Meir Leibush Weiser</a></multilink></mekorot>
−
<point><b>Why were they commanded not to leave spoils?</b></point>
+
<point><b>Severity of the sin:</b><ul>
 +
<li>Shaul thought כוחי ועוצם ידי</li>
 +
<li>Shaul gave in to the nation</li>
 +
<li>Shaul caused the battle to be for a different purpose than it was intended to be for</li>
 +
</ul></point>
 +
<point><b>Purpose of the war</b> – Ralbag and Abarbanel suggest this battle with Amalek was for a different purpose than most wars.</point>
 +
<point><b>"וַתַּעַט אֶל הַשָּׁלָל"</b> – Shemuel's rebuke to Shaul focuses on the animals that he hears were left over.</point>
 +
<point><b>"כִּי חַטַּאת קֶסֶם מֶרִי וְאָוֶן וּתְרָפִים הַפְצַר"</b></point>
 +
<point><b>David's battle with Amalek</b></point>
 +
<point><b>Shaul vs. David</b></point>
 
</category>
 
</category>
 
<category>Did Not Fight All of Amalek
 
<category>Did Not Fight All of Amalek
 
<mekorot><multilink><a href="HoilMosheShemuelI15-3" data-aht="source">Hoil Moshe</a><a href="HoilMosheShemuelI15-3" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:3</a><a href="HoilMosheShemuelI15-5" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:5</a><a href="R. Moshe Yitzchak Ashkenazi (Hoil Moshe)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe Yitzchak Ashkenazi</a></multilink></mekorot>
 
<mekorot><multilink><a href="HoilMosheShemuelI15-3" data-aht="source">Hoil Moshe</a><a href="HoilMosheShemuelI15-3" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:3</a><a href="HoilMosheShemuelI15-5" data-aht="source">Shemuel I 15:5</a><a href="R. Moshe Yitzchak Ashkenazi (Hoil Moshe)" data-aht="parshan">About R. Moshe Yitzchak Ashkenazi</a></multilink></mekorot>
 +
<point><b>Severity of the sin:</b></point>
 
</category>
 
</category>
 
</approaches>
 
</approaches>
 
</page>
 
</page>
 
</aht-xml>
 
</aht-xml>

Version as of 02:28, 15 July 2015

Shaul Loses the Kingship

Exegetical Approaches

This topic has not yet undergone editorial review

Kept Agag Alive

Sources:Bavli YomaYoma 22bAbout the Bavli, Bavli MegillahMegillah 12b-13aAbout the Bavli, Yalkut ShimoniShemuel I 121About Yalkut Shimoni
Severity of the sin:
  • Shaul thought he was more just than Hashem – Bavli Yoma and Yalkut Shimoni suggest that Shahul thought he could decide who needs to be punished or saved on his own, leading to his extra mercy here but extreme cruelty in Nov.
  • Consequences of deed – Bavli Megillah says that had Agag been killed immediately Haman would have never been born, suggesting that that was the problem.
  • Shaul simply did not listen to Hashem's commandment.  Hashem said to destroy all of Amalek so leaving over even just one person violated the directive.
Purpose of the war
"וַתַּעַט אֶל הַשָּׁלָל" – This position is missing from the text, as Shemuel rebukes in verses 14, 19, and 22-23 about the spoils that were left, and does not mention a word about keeping Agag alive.  In addition, Shaul announces that he kept Hashem's words and brought Agag which would be a great insolence if that was the sin.  The only hint to such a sin is in verses 32-33 where Shemuel kills Agag, and even that can be understood as a demonstration that Hashem won the battle and not Shaul.
"כִּי חַטַּאת קֶסֶם מֶרִי וְאָוֶן וּתְרָפִים הַפְצַר"
David's battle with Amalek
Shaul vs. David

Did Not Consecrate the Spoils

Sources:RadakShemuel I 15:3Shemuel I 15:12Shemuel I 15:15Shemuel I 15:17Shemuel I 15:23About R. David Kimchi, RalbagShemuel I 15:6-23About R. Levi b. Gershom, AbarbanelShemuel I 14, Questions 2-4Shemuel I 15:1Shemuel I 15:14-15Shemuel I 15:23Shemuel I 15:26About R. Yitzchak Abarbanel, BiurShemuel I 15:23About the Biur (Netivot HaShalom), MalbimShemuel I 15:4-5About R. Meir Leibush Weiser
Severity of the sin:
  • Shaul thought כוחי ועוצם ידי
  • Shaul gave in to the nation
  • Shaul caused the battle to be for a different purpose than it was intended to be for
Purpose of the war – Ralbag and Abarbanel suggest this battle with Amalek was for a different purpose than most wars.
"וַתַּעַט אֶל הַשָּׁלָל" – Shemuel's rebuke to Shaul focuses on the animals that he hears were left over.
"כִּי חַטַּאת קֶסֶם מֶרִי וְאָוֶן וּתְרָפִים הַפְצַר"
David's battle with Amalek
Shaul vs. David

Did Not Fight All of Amalek

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